RowJimmy we also went on a crazy run with plenty of food luck last year.. It's not that Liverpool are great because it's that bit they had their kick e this year and look like they will seal the title. We had our luck last year and we couldn't use that to win the title. And it wasn't city that was the problem losing to Fulham, West ham and villa. Particularly the latter it was in our hands but we couldn't cope with it. I mean if Liverpool aren't really rated well an arsenal that has not won the title has to be viewed below this team.

      awooga83 And it wasn't city that was the problem losing to Fulham, West ham and villa. Particularly the latter it was in our hands but we couldn't cope with it.

      I keep seeing this point being made and I struggle to get to grips with it.

      Every top team will have results where they felt they should have done better. That we happened to have a few more than City did last season doesn't make us failures.

      Accepting we had a good season last year isn't mutually exclusive from accepting we should have done better this season.

          Don Pacifico we were good but not good enough to convert a very good run with plenty of luck ourselves into a title. We were good but we won nothing in the long run that won't matter how we nearly won a title. I'm more worried that we moan about bad luck but we couldn't win when we had the luck running with us so it seems a bit irrelevant to say look how lucky Liverpool are when we had a similar run but we couldn't deliver at the end.

              Don Pacifico That we happened to have a few more than City did last season doesn't make us failures.

              In the context of chasing a league title, it absolutely does.

                  PSG knocking Liverpool out and possibly taking their captain as well!

                  Gurgen we got an insane run of results and no injuries to key players that we played a lot. It's not like for like but we had a run that was unlikely to repeat and we couldn't use that luck to deliver us a title.

                    awooga83 for what it's worth, I don't get the Liverpool luck narrative either! There comes a point where you have to accept they've just been better.

                    And I'm not saying we should be content with coming 2nd but last season shouldn't be used as a criticism of our progression because it was in fact a testament to our progression.

                    Tam this is such a binary summation of the situation though without any acknowledgement of the context (ie. We achieved our highest points total in an incredibly long time and got to a CL QF for the first time in a decade or so).

                    Again, I acknowledge that this season has been below expectation and progress means nothing if we don't win anything but I don't think we should be reframing last season as a failure. I see no reason why we can't rectify things next season.

                          Their midfield put on a clinic over the two legs, fantastic.

                          Gurgen I think this is so obvious, yet important to highlight. I feel like folks are being quite irrational about their expectation adjustment for this season considering all that’s gone down.

                          Imagine Barcelona without Yamal, Lewandowski or Raphinha. Or Real without Mbappe, Vini Jr and Rodrygo, and where Bellingham missed basically a third of the season.

                          Or Liverpool without just Salah.

                          It’s disappointing that we are not competing for the title this season, but if there’s ever been a season where the manager/team deserves a pass, it’s this one.

                              Don Pacifico this is such a binary summation of the situation though without any acknowledgement of the context (ie. We achieved our highest points total in an incredibly long time and got to a CL QF for the first time in a decade or so).
                              Again, I acknowledge that this season has been below expectation and progress means nothing if we don't win anything but I don't think we should be reframing last season as a failure. I see no reason why we can't rectify things next season.

                              I don't think that context is particularly of great significance if you are of a view this is where Arsenal should be at. I don't see many positive in the CL campaign other than we were finally back in the latter stages. We beat teams we should have and performed poorly when it came to the crunch.

                              Whilst we're on context, there's very little talk of it this season when the arguments are being made that we are still 2nd despite our issues - that is only because of an unprecedented and wholly unexpected collapse of the team which has dominated the league for almost a decade. But for that we'd be a distant third and considered well out of the running before recent weeks led a collective hammering of the final nail into this season's coffin.

                              I similarly can acknowledge last season was an outstanding effort despite the dreary CL exit and being pipped to the post by City in the league. But that doesn't mean it wasn't a failure. That we failed well doesn't mean we didn't fail.

                                  flobaba I think it's both fair and makes sense that we're falling apart considering our current situation, but I'm also less willing to "give them a pass" because I don't think we've been particularly great at any point this season, including before the injuries started piling up.

                                      But we don’t need to “look particularly great” to win the league. You have all heard me complain several times about how we play. Not just this season, either. That’s largely irrelevant. Even Liverpool haven’t looked great, but they’re running away with it on the back of Salah, and a relatively stable season in terms of their first team availability.

                                      We would be significantly more effective at execution, and would have a lot more points without the injuries, of that there can be little doubt. Even our set pieces have dropped off and become much less threatening without Saka’s delivery prowess. It adds up, and for us, with the number of absences we’ve had to endure it adds up quickly.

                                        QuincyAbeyie agree we had Saka when we lost poorly away at Newcastle and both him and Ode when we drew 0-0 at home to Everton. Injuries may have brought it out a little more but I think we still lack quality for a title and they issues encountered are the same, lesser opposition sitting back and able to see out our lack of attacking threat.

                                        We fail to score too often for a team that looks to win the title that's been clear for the last 2 seasons. It isn't just true this year.

                                          flobaba I didn't mean "look particularly great" as in having an exciting playing style. I meant quality-wise - as in looking like a team good enough to win the league. Like Liverpool have done most of the season, and unlike what I thought we looked like before we were ravaged by injuries.

                                            Tam I don't think that context is particularly of great significance if you are of a view this is where Arsenal should be at.

                                            This is probably the crux of it - we met (and even slightly exceeded) my expectations last season. This season we have fallen short.

                                            Tam That we failed well doesn't mean we didn't fail.

                                            Again, I disagree on the take-out from last season. If nothing but 1st place was your expectation, then I get why you'd see it as a failure but that wasn't mine.

                                                flobaba the team certainly deserves a pass, they've been running on fumes since forever. The manager who decided to leave the team short other than getting in more duel monsters? Nah

                                                    jones pass my ass. It’s poor squad building management.

                                                    I want us to all make a vow ahead of next season that there are no excuses not to win something and we will not blame injuries/referees. Can we get a DocuSign sorted @Pepe LeFrits please?