Gurgen we got an insane run of results and no injuries to key players that we played a lot. It's not like for like but we had a run that was unlikely to repeat and we couldn't use that luck to deliver us a title.

    awooga83 for what it's worth, I don't get the Liverpool luck narrative either! There comes a point where you have to accept they've just been better.

    And I'm not saying we should be content with coming 2nd but last season shouldn't be used as a criticism of our progression because it was in fact a testament to our progression.

    Tam this is such a binary summation of the situation though without any acknowledgement of the context (ie. We achieved our highest points total in an incredibly long time and got to a CL QF for the first time in a decade or so).

    Again, I acknowledge that this season has been below expectation and progress means nothing if we don't win anything but I don't think we should be reframing last season as a failure. I see no reason why we can't rectify things next season.

          Their midfield put on a clinic over the two legs, fantastic.

          Gurgen I think this is so obvious, yet important to highlight. I feel like folks are being quite irrational about their expectation adjustment for this season considering all that’s gone down.

          Imagine Barcelona without Yamal, Lewandowski or Raphinha. Or Real without Mbappe, Vini Jr and Rodrygo, and where Bellingham missed basically a third of the season.

          Or Liverpool without just Salah.

          It’s disappointing that we are not competing for the title this season, but if there’s ever been a season where the manager/team deserves a pass, it’s this one.

              Don Pacifico this is such a binary summation of the situation though without any acknowledgement of the context (ie. We achieved our highest points total in an incredibly long time and got to a CL QF for the first time in a decade or so).
              Again, I acknowledge that this season has been below expectation and progress means nothing if we don't win anything but I don't think we should be reframing last season as a failure. I see no reason why we can't rectify things next season.

              I don't think that context is particularly of great significance if you are of a view this is where Arsenal should be at. I don't see many positive in the CL campaign other than we were finally back in the latter stages. We beat teams we should have and performed poorly when it came to the crunch.

              Whilst we're on context, there's very little talk of it this season when the arguments are being made that we are still 2nd despite our issues - that is only because of an unprecedented and wholly unexpected collapse of the team which has dominated the league for almost a decade. But for that we'd be a distant third and considered well out of the running before recent weeks led a collective hammering of the final nail into this season's coffin.

              I similarly can acknowledge last season was an outstanding effort despite the dreary CL exit and being pipped to the post by City in the league. But that doesn't mean it wasn't a failure. That we failed well doesn't mean we didn't fail.

                  flobaba I think it's both fair and makes sense that we're falling apart considering our current situation, but I'm also less willing to "give them a pass" because I don't think we've been particularly great at any point this season, including before the injuries started piling up.

                      But we don’t need to “look particularly great” to win the league. You have all heard me complain several times about how we play. Not just this season, either. That’s largely irrelevant. Even Liverpool haven’t looked great, but they’re running away with it on the back of Salah, and a relatively stable season in terms of their first team availability.

                      We would be significantly more effective at execution, and would have a lot more points without the injuries, of that there can be little doubt. Even our set pieces have dropped off and become much less threatening without Saka’s delivery prowess. It adds up, and for us, with the number of absences we’ve had to endure it adds up quickly.

                        QuincyAbeyie agree we had Saka when we lost poorly away at Newcastle and both him and Ode when we drew 0-0 at home to Everton. Injuries may have brought it out a little more but I think we still lack quality for a title and they issues encountered are the same, lesser opposition sitting back and able to see out our lack of attacking threat.

                        We fail to score too often for a team that looks to win the title that's been clear for the last 2 seasons. It isn't just true this year.

                          flobaba I didn't mean "look particularly great" as in having an exciting playing style. I meant quality-wise - as in looking like a team good enough to win the league. Like Liverpool have done most of the season, and unlike what I thought we looked like before we were ravaged by injuries.

                            Tam I don't think that context is particularly of great significance if you are of a view this is where Arsenal should be at.

                            This is probably the crux of it - we met (and even slightly exceeded) my expectations last season. This season we have fallen short.

                            Tam That we failed well doesn't mean we didn't fail.

                            Again, I disagree on the take-out from last season. If nothing but 1st place was your expectation, then I get why you'd see it as a failure but that wasn't mine.

                                flobaba the team certainly deserves a pass, they've been running on fumes since forever. The manager who decided to leave the team short other than getting in more duel monsters? Nah

                                    jones pass my ass. It’s poor squad building management.

                                    I want us to all make a vow ahead of next season that there are no excuses not to win something and we will not blame injuries/referees. Can we get a DocuSign sorted @Pepe LeFrits please?

                                        flobaba I think this is so obvious, yet important to highlight. I feel like folks are being quite irrational about their expectation adjustment for this season considering all that’s gone down.

                                        Imagine Barcelona without Yamal, Lewandowski or Raphinha. Or Real without Mbappe, Vini Jr and Rodrygo, and where Bellingham missed basically a third of the season.

                                        Or Liverpool without just Salah.

                                        It’s disappointing that we are not competing for the title this season, but if there’s ever been a season where the manager/team deserves a pass, it’s this one.

                                        I like this. But would definitely split Arteta/ Edu's report card. Again, so we don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
                                        1) Buying. This is a C/D. I like the players he brought in last summer (other than Sterling), but we are definitely short in the front 4
                                        2) Using resources: This is an A. He's done well to use his whole squad, particularly given the compounding challenges that arose due to (1).
                                        3) Tactics: This is a B. He's managed to get the team to second despite the limitations forced by (1), but there is definitely scope for varying attack more, ceding more possession, breaking faster, attacking the centre of the park, etc., to reduce our predictability

                                          This year has been very disappointing, and our injuries/red cards and loss of confidence have caused us a lot of issues. Despite this I think we put ourself in a position where injuries could pile up in the way they did in concentrated positions.

                                          I think everyone knows by now that I'm not the biggest fan of the way we play and our prioritisation of defensive, physical style of play(ers) over more offensive, direct and creative style of play(ers). And to be honest we kind of brought this on ourselves by the amount of workload we put on our forwards (especially Saka and Odegaard) to play so many minutes whilst contributing so heavily both in defence on top of their offensive expectations year in year out.

                                          That being said, Liverpool winning this season "when all the luck went their way" and using it as a stick to beat us for last season "when all the luck went our way" is a bit of a lazy exercise. Extremely so.

                                          Yes, we had a lot of luck with injuries and results all seemingly going out way during the second half of the season (we did win every game bar 1 draw to City and 1 loss to Villa). Yes, Liverpool have had a lot of luck with injuries and results going their way for much of the season as well.

                                          Difference is our nearest challenger last season, City, had a similar amount of luck with injuries and results going their way (think Spurs, Forest, and Palace) during the second half of the season and could have dropped a number of points were it not for poor oppostion finishing. Whereas this season the both us and City dropped out of the race before the spring due to various reasons.

                                          If City and Liverpool performed last season the way we and City performed this season, we'd easily have walked to the title. If City and us performed this season how we did last season, would Liverpool be guaranteed a title? They may yet end up with 91 points (which is what they are averaging) and if they do fair play to them. But talking about the luck we had and the luck Liverpool have and using it to praise Liverpool and condemn us in getting the title over the line ignores the level of competition each team faced.

                                          So whilst I am disappointed with how things are this season, I'm not going to be running around kissing Liverpool arse because everyone else shit the bed the one time they had a good season in like 5 years giving them a clear run for the title.

                                          Sicario2 - Tier 1 I want us to all make a vow ahead of next season that there are no excuses not to win something and we will not blame injuries/referees.

                                          I do sometimes wonder what world you live in. It must be really annoying when life continues not to work out exactly as you planned.

                                          In no way do I want to start a political discussion but it's a bit like I saying the UK economy has to recover this year, regardless of whether we have another pandemic or Cold War. We don't operate in a vacuum. It doesn't exempt the club from criticism but you can't set such unshakeable expectations.

                                              Tam If you see every season in which we don't win something as a failure, you must have a pretty grim outlook on life. There is a lot of competition and there is context. The vast majority of teams never win trophies. Only 1/20 can win the EPL. Are the rest all failures, every year? I doubt that's the way footballers and other athletes look at things.

                                                Personally I didn't see anything in Tam's post suggesting that all twenty teams in the league have the same goal for the season.

                                                Since we don't seem to have a thread for the game that start in less than an hour... Holy shit was a makeshift team we're playing with tonight. Zin in midfield with Tierney, Sterling and Merino up front. LMAOOOOO. Banter lineup.