USArsenal I looked at the replay above and i don't actually see where the ball is touched twice. I have not seen the other replays though. Maybe a different one shows something more clearly.
Only on a slow mo replay from certain angles you can just about see it, he touches it and almost straight away kicks the ball, probably like a few milliseconds difference so it is hard to spot
Personally, i think if they can see no CLEAR indication that the ball was touched or moved at all, VAR should not intervene. I can't see that as a "clear and obvious error". I have now see 2 different angles, and i cannot definitively see contact on either of them.
Maybe there is another replay out there that shows me that, but i haven't seen it yet. And i don't want to defend Alvarez on this or anything, but i think in his case, there was absolutely no trajectory change on the ball, it went where he kicked it, and there was no movement of the ball before he kicked it. It 100% should have counted.
UEFA/FIFA should not talk about intentional v unintentional, they should talk about if the trajectory of the ball was altered in any way. If not, the pen should count. If so, it shouldn't. Just my opinion.
I am so happy we are playing Real. Personally, I think we have a better chance of advancing against Real than we did against Atletico (not saying a good chance). We cannot play against a mid-to-low block at the moment and Atletico would've been that on steroids. It would've been an extremely tedious and boring tie and we also would have had more pressure on us. Whereas now we get to play against a clearly amazing attacking side in Real where there will be little to no expectations/pressure even though we have probably the best defense in the world that from a personnel perspective, matches up quite well with the Madrid attack.
It will be a huge test for Arteta tactically on how to manage these two legs, especially with the unfortunate and frankly unfair circumstance that the Madrid tie is second. That needs to change next year in this new UCL format - the higher seeded team after the league phase always should get the second match. The huge variable here is clearly going to be the health/fitness/form of Martinelli and potentially Saka. If we can get those two back, you could certainly see a scenario where we advance against Madrid riding a stalwart defensive effort and catching them out with either superb individual effort or an opportunistic set piece. I have my doubts on if Saka will be available, and if so, have any type of fitness/form to make an impact but we are still a little under a month away so there is some time.
These are the ties that I want to be involved in with Champions League. The glamour ties. I'd rather we had a fully healthy squad but the experience the team will get from two legs against this juggernaut will only help us going into next year IMO, regardless of result.
JazzG UEFA: "We're considering holding a well-funded and very boring enquiry into all this which will deliver its recommendations for reform at some unspecified future time"
This angle shows it. I have no issue with the ref following the rules. I only have a problem with the rule itself, and that they didn't show the conclusive angle on television.
I also think neither intentional vs. unintentional nor trajectory changing vs. not changing is the way to go. Too much subjectivity. Make the player retake it if he scores, and count it as a miss if he misses.
It probably goes back to the intent of the law. The way the law is written is probably to make clear that a penalty is something you strike once. You don’t dribble your way to goal.
By the letter of the law, he’s guilty; but is that the intent?
Can see it a bit better here.
[edit]
Another angle here
Watch the sequence where the camera is on him after the ball goes in. He knew he made an error , could see it on his face
There's a clip of Agüero who's apparently become a streamer watching the pen live and he said immediately "shit he's touched it twice"
Was the right call, and he clearly gained an advantage by doing it, intentional or not.
It’s only a story because people like the idea of a real conspiracy. Can’t be kicking balls onto yourself
Yep right call. You could tell by the spin and flight of the ball that it was a double touch
Honestly, all this Alvarez chat just makes me think there's simply too much interference from referees.
It's boring always seeing headlines devoted to refereeing/the rules of the game. That's not what I enjoy about football and I don't think interventions like this one improve the game.
Both Utd and spurs winning.
It may be a case of us supporting Utd in the final if Spurs get that far. Can’t have Spurs winning a trophy.
Sicario2 - Tier 1 Would have to agree.
Nothing worse than being stuck on a train home with a bunch of Spurs fans leaving their match. What an ick 
poor me.
Sicario2 - Tier 1 almost forgot what a cheat code Casemiro was at Madrid, guy could do literally whatever he wanted on the pitch somehow.
Another angle of the Alvarez penalty.
It's a very marginal call? There's no open and shut video evidence for it I've seen. People are just posting videos and photos like the one above and saying there's "clearly" a double kick, making claims about spin and trajectory and so on. VAR should make the footage and systems they used for the decision public.
Burnwinter VAR should make the footage and systems they used for the decision public.
Ah never mind. It was published and it's actually visible here.
I was planning to not watch the Real game. Turns out I will be at the Bernabeu to watch it live. Such is life.
HomeSteak just happen to be passing, right?
Carlo is a perfect example of how managers are defined by the players at their disposal.
You also so see great managers peak and fall and that always without exception correlates with shitter teams and players. We will see if now with Pep unless they bag some stars in the summer.
HomeSteak Work thing?
HomeSteak imagine the joy you're gonna be feeling come the end of the match. You lucky, lucky thing.
Thank you. This is literally the ONLY angle where one can see the actual contact. All the others i have seen were not definitive in any way. Now i can see why it was called back. Annoyingly so, but 'letter of the law' and all that.
USArsenal I think I'd seen at least six angles of it before that one myself. But now I've seen it ...
The way to separate pros from slugs like us is to see how guys like Aguero and Mbappe immediately knew it was a violation. Mbappe was at the halfway line complaining to the ref as soon as that kick was taken. Aguerro spotted it on a livestream.
Without the refereeing headlines, the game would have been forgotten in a second. Now you've had engagement on it for days.
QuincyAbeyie Make the player retake it if he scores, and count it as a miss if he misses.
I think a retake is fair. If the keeper breaks the rules during a penalty it isn't just awarded as goal, its retaken. Same should apply to the taker.
Nah. No slipping allowed.
Letter of the law.
Coombs Have to say I prefer this too. I don't think they should make penalties any easier to execute, they're already 0.8–0.9 xG or a straight out goal if you've got a Toney on side.
Burnwinter it's sport. It's all about precision, execution, not fucking up...I don't care for all this talk of intent and "what is he supposed to do" logic. Way I see it is the whole thing is backward these days. Administratively, we are concerned with precision, and sportingly, we are all wishy wishy. Flip it.
Coombs The better penalties are, and the better compact zonal defending becomes, the more you see offence become about attempting to win free kicks, penalties and corners, which even though we're becoming the masters of it, is a bit dreary and starts to make the sport feel like rugby union.
