Burnwinter change to the offside rule like Wenger wants (daylight rule) fixes a lot of this.

    All the arguments for why Alvarez shouldn't be allowed to attempt another penalty could also be used to say that a GK who steps off his line shouldn't be allowed to attempt another save.

      QuincyAbeyie awarding goals when the ball never crossed the line would be bizarre. Not in favour. Shouldn't be making things happen that never actually occurred.

          Coombs I do see his point though, you're sorta awarding the keeper a save he didn't make when the pen taker slips might as well award a goal as punishment when the keeper moves too early. You retake pens during normal time when a defender encroaches too early as well.

          Don't see any reason why slipping (in a shootout) shouldn't be retaken.

            Claudius Union Berlin scored a goal last Sunday against Frankfurt in the 89th minute to make it 3-1 only for VAR to chalk it off and award Frankfurt a free kick at the edge of Berlin's box because of a handball in the build up. That would've been unthinkable not long ago as well.

            Offside for the final pass invalidates "ball crosses the line", a throw in into the goal makes it a goal kick instead of goal as well etc if you wanted to go wild with it teams get awarded 3-0 wins even with the other team winning 5-0 in exceptional cases. I get you can't discard them all akh but when someone says the rules should change you can't really explain how a rule should stand by referring to the rulebook

              QuincyAbeyie the GK doesn’t get a retry. The shooter gets a retry because the goalkeeper jumped too early and his save prevented a potential goal.

                If the GK didn't get to retry, the shooter would've faced an empty goal on the second attempt.

                  I think a retry when stepping off the line is more to the GK's benefit than having your shot counted as a miss is to the shooter's benefit, yes. That's what I've been trying to say all along.

                    QuincyAbeyie I’m not following. He’s saved the ball. It didn’t go into the net. How is to his benefit? He’s being punished for a jump start that contributes to a save. If the kick is not re-taken, that goalie falsely earns a save. A retake clearly punishes a keeper, and is to the penalty taker’s benefit.

                      I'm saying the GK is punished less severely for cheating than the shooter because the GK's punishment leaves him with a chance of saving while the shooter's punishment leaves him with no chance of scoring. This isn't even my opinion, it's just how it is.

                        QuincyAbeyie the goalie never gets to retry anything. It's always the taker. The punishment for illegally saving a penalty is to face...a penalty. That's harsh enough.

                            Coombs two scenarios, both break the rules, one gets another shot the other doesn't.

                            Funny thing is the goalie breaks the rule on purpose to gain an advantage while the pen taker doesn't yet the latter is punished harsher than the other.

                                Yellow for goalie would be a better balancer.
                                Ultimately I think this is a one-off situation (an accidental double touch that results in the ball going in).
                                I do think it points to one of the (many) general issues with VAR - the infraction needs to be clearly visible, or clearly and quickly established by the technology (as is the case for goal line and semi-automated offsides, also in-out in tennis, etc.) or else no call. Something where we're looking at the slow-mo and arguing about whether it can be seen or not is not what we want. But this particular case is unlikely to happen again.

                                jones how does the goalie get an advantage? I don't think this line of reasoning makes any sense. Kicker should have to get it right, no retakes for their own fuckup. Goalie has their save ruled out and they've gotta face a near certain goal again. There is no advantage to a punishment.

                                    The relative advantage is the chance to correct his fuck-up that the shooter doesn't get.

                                      Coombs the goalie generally has an advantage committing as early as he can, if he overcommits his punishment is to simply go again. In relation to the taker's punishment on infraction that's definitely an advantage.

                                      Pen is just a 70% chance btw I think, in a shootout that probably drops even further.