invisibleman18 happened a couple times in the Bundesliga in recent years and was chalked off each time, it's really not a new rule.
All new UCL 24/25
invisibleman18 I feel like it should have been a retake similar to how it is if the keeper saves and is off the line rather than it being a goal awarded instead. Probably a call we'll never see again like some of the red cards we've had this season.
It is an infringement under Rule 14 if a player taking a penalty strikes the ball twice before another player touches it. In normal time, this results in an indirect free kick. Alvarez can suck on my chocolate salty balls
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You can't have the tech and keep everyone in the dark. But then again, I think football revels in controversy. They could easily adopt better technology and refereeing standards if they wanted but even the fucking clubs themselves don't seem all that bothered until it affects them. Semi-automated tech was supposed to come in last season in the PL and we're still waiting and these shitty clubs now want a vote to remove VAR.
More controversy and emotions = more engagement.
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Claudius It's not a referee problem, but it is a rule problem. If the keeper steps off the line and saves he gets to try again. If there's something wrong with a scored penalty it should be retaken imo.
Can't wait to face Real. We will have little pressure on us from outside.
QuincyAbeyie Agreed and a very good example you've given about the GK.
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QuincyAbeyie nope
The rules are fine and quite consistent.
1) On the striker hitting the ball twice - The striker is punished for his mistake by having the whole penalty chalked off
2) On the goalie moving off his line and saving - the goalie is punished for his cheating by giving the striker an opportunity to retake. This is nullified if the goalie's cheating is in vain and the striker does indeed score
Btw (1) happens so infrequently - probably less than 1% of all penalties taken that it should not be a priority for changing rules to favour attackers. Name the last time you saw this
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Claudius The rules are fine and quite consistent.
1) On the striker hitting the ball twice - The striker is punished for his mistake by having the whole penalty chalked off
2) On the goalie moving off his line and saving - the goalie is punished for his cheating by giving the striker an opportunity to retake. This is nullified if the goalie's cheating is in vain and the striker does indeed score
Exactly my point.
The punishment for the GK is not that the penalty is deemed as scored even if the GK cheated.
The punishment for the striker hitting the ball twice is that the penalty is deemed as missed because he cheated.
Consistent would be either
1) that the penalty is deemed as scored if the GK steps off his line and saves, or
3) that the striker hitting the ball twice has to redo his penalty.
Claudius It is an infringement under Rule 14 if a player taking a penalty strikes the ball twice before another player touches it.
Happened to us in comical fashion back in the day. Ask Thierry how he feels about Bobby's attempt to roll the penalty to him.
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Big Willie yeah, we all remember that. but that was 23 years ago or something. it's not a thing.
i was so annoyed, like what are these idiots doing.
That said, what they were trying is perfectly legal. you just need to ensure you don't touch the ball twice, the recipient is outside the box when you actually kick the ball, and the ball rolls forward.
Claudius yeah, we all remember that. but that was 23 years ago or something. it's not a thing.
Not arguing, just an example I remember of it happening because it happened to us.
Claudius That said, what they were trying is perfectly legal.
Indeed. It's happened a few of times since. Such was the confidence of that team they even came up with it. They could, and probably should, have pulled off that move given their quality. Most teams/players would never have the nerve to even think of trying it.
Big Willie if Saka is Pires, he needs his Henry. Will be such a multiplier
Qwiss yeah its a lot easier to do that when you have Mbappe, Vini and Bellingham. Wasn't so chill when he had Richarlison, Iwobi and James Rodriguez.
He played some great football with Everton, in his time at Chelsea as well they played great football. The point is he is more an old school Wenger type where he gives players players more leeway to find their own solutions rather than being coached to within an inch of their life about how how they need to build out and play.
I looked at the replay above and i don't actually see where the ball is touched twice. I have not seen the other replays though. Maybe a different one shows something more clearly.
That said, i can remember more than one instance of a 'double kick' penalty being chalked off in the past. IIRC, didn't John Terry have that happen to him once?
USArsenal John Terry’s one was a miss #moscow2008
No, i remember that one, but i thought there was a second one (maybe not from Terry). I might be thinking of a different player though. I know i have seen more than one double-touch goal scratched off.
Yeah I can't see the double contact either.
USArsenal I looked at the replay above and i don't actually see where the ball is touched twice. I have not seen the other replays though. Maybe a different one shows something more clearly.
Only on a slow mo replay from certain angles you can just about see it, he touches it and almost straight away kicks the ball, probably like a few milliseconds difference so it is hard to spot
Personally, i think if they can see no CLEAR indication that the ball was touched or moved at all, VAR should not intervene. I can't see that as a "clear and obvious error". I have now see 2 different angles, and i cannot definitively see contact on either of them.
Maybe there is another replay out there that shows me that, but i haven't seen it yet. And i don't want to defend Alvarez on this or anything, but i think in his case, there was absolutely no trajectory change on the ball, it went where he kicked it, and there was no movement of the ball before he kicked it. It 100% should have counted.
UEFA/FIFA should not talk about intentional v unintentional, they should talk about if the trajectory of the ball was altered in any way. If not, the pen should count. If so, it shouldn't. Just my opinion.
I am so happy we are playing Real. Personally, I think we have a better chance of advancing against Real than we did against Atletico (not saying a good chance). We cannot play against a mid-to-low block at the moment and Atletico would've been that on steroids. It would've been an extremely tedious and boring tie and we also would have had more pressure on us. Whereas now we get to play against a clearly amazing attacking side in Real where there will be little to no expectations/pressure even though we have probably the best defense in the world that from a personnel perspective, matches up quite well with the Madrid attack.
It will be a huge test for Arteta tactically on how to manage these two legs, especially with the unfortunate and frankly unfair circumstance that the Madrid tie is second. That needs to change next year in this new UCL format - the higher seeded team after the league phase always should get the second match. The huge variable here is clearly going to be the health/fitness/form of Martinelli and potentially Saka. If we can get those two back, you could certainly see a scenario where we advance against Madrid riding a stalwart defensive effort and catching them out with either superb individual effort or an opportunistic set piece. I have my doubts on if Saka will be available, and if so, have any type of fitness/form to make an impact but we are still a little under a month away so there is some time.
These are the ties that I want to be involved in with Champions League. The glamour ties. I'd rather we had a fully healthy squad but the experience the team will get from two legs against this juggernaut will only help us going into next year IMO, regardless of result.
JazzG UEFA: "We're considering holding a well-funded and very boring enquiry into all this which will deliver its recommendations for reform at some unspecified future time"
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This angle shows it. I have no issue with the ref following the rules. I only have a problem with the rule itself, and that they didn't show the conclusive angle on television.
I also think neither intentional vs. unintentional nor trajectory changing vs. not changing is the way to go. Too much subjectivity. Make the player retake it if he scores, and count it as a miss if he misses.
It probably goes back to the intent of the law. The way the law is written is probably to make clear that a penalty is something you strike once. You don’t dribble your way to goal.
By the letter of the law, he’s guilty; but is that the intent?
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Can see it a bit better here.
[edit]
Another angle here
Watch the sequence where the camera is on him after the ball goes in. He knew he made an error , could see it on his face
There's a clip of Agüero who's apparently become a streamer watching the pen live and he said immediately "shit he's touched it twice"
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Was the right call, and he clearly gained an advantage by doing it, intentional or not.
It’s only a story because people like the idea of a real conspiracy. Can’t be kicking balls onto yourself
Yep right call. You could tell by the spin and flight of the ball that it was a double touch
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Honestly, all this Alvarez chat just makes me think there's simply too much interference from referees.
It's boring always seeing headlines devoted to refereeing/the rules of the game. That's not what I enjoy about football and I don't think interventions like this one improve the game.
Both Utd and spurs winning.
It may be a case of us supporting Utd in the final if Spurs get that far. Can’t have Spurs winning a trophy.
Sicario2 - Tier 1 Would have to agree.
Nothing worse than being stuck on a train home with a bunch of Spurs fans leaving their match. What an ick 
poor me.
Sicario2 - Tier 1 almost forgot what a cheat code Casemiro was at Madrid, guy could do literally whatever he wanted on the pitch somehow.
Another angle of the Alvarez penalty.
It's a very marginal call? There's no open and shut video evidence for it I've seen. People are just posting videos and photos like the one above and saying there's "clearly" a double kick, making claims about spin and trajectory and so on. VAR should make the footage and systems they used for the decision public.