Coombs Sorry by the way. I shouldn't have framed that the way I did. The speed and brutality with which Trump has been able to do certain things through the Presidency is alarming and unfamiliar.

Burnwinter Vance is an extraordinary animal

He also tried to needle Starmer and Macron earlier this week.

It's all about the rush of pleasure for the "patriots" following the spectacle. That's the catch, though, the Itchy and Scratchy theme music eventually stops and then there's a hangover while all the cognitive dissonances are resolved.

Gazza M the state of the sources and accounts you cite is consistently horrible

A broken clock is right twice a day as well....

Qwiss Zelenky has gotten way too comfortable lecturing world leaders. It was stupid to think that same strategy was going to help him with Trump and Vance.

Good thing you said this rather than me lol. What do you think, is Zelensky just being hard nosed here or is he being egged on to try and take Trump on?

This isn't Biden and Kamala here, as a leader who knows he is losing the war and the only thing stopping Russia wiping them out is America, he needs to read the room here and do what is best for his country. It is a horrible position for Zelensky to be in, not nice and the Americans are going to absolute arseholes here and demand a high price but the situation is what it is.

All the European leaders tweeting their support, well Twitter isn't going to save Ukraine from Russian bombs nor are the Europeans so he needs to swallow his pride here. I've seen UK journalists egg Starmer on to react but he is being very sensible here and trying to act like a bridge and not take a side.

It's the attitude of a man who was told by NATO nations he'd be given everything necessary to decisively win the war and has never accepted that it was a lie. He's a very unpleasant character rather than a hero, but from a practical point of view victimising Ukraine won't help conjure up a lasting peace.

JazzG the Americans are going to are absolute arseholes here

Fixed it for you!

RowJimmy Il se fera enculer dans tous les cas

And let's spare a thought for the hundreds of thousands of conscripts killed in this war. Fuck all empires and fuck Putin, NATO and all three of Obama, Biden and Trump.

Burnwinter this totally, if you create a situation, which seems to be occurring here, if humiliating Ukraine making them give an the concessions and bringing Russia back into the world you aren't creating a sustainable peace. You have shown Russia that there is no consequence from launching an invasion of a neighbour. The same message will be seen globally.

I mean the other side is you can't trust the Americans right now nobody is their allies Putin is closer then Abby country the wau they have set up. This has massively damaged then externally not that they will care I guess.

Daz Vance is the Gary Neville of international politics

Seems like the sort of thing Trump would love tbf.

I'm shook by that spectacle. I think it'll prove to be one of the most consequential moments in global politics, or western politics at least, in a very long time.

That is the reality of the situation, the conversation got nasty but this wasn’t some big set up like the media are making it out, if you watch the whole clip one comment seemed to trigger this all off. This is a real shit situation for Ukraine but he doesn’t have any other options, it’s that simple. He has run out of road and needs to show more diplomacy. The whole world know what kind of person Trump is, when you are relying on him you have to pander to him. That is what Starmer did yesterday and he came out well out of his meeting. The European leaders kind words aren’t gonna win you the war, only the Americans are gonna save him.

One thing really interesting is the British media seem united in their belief that Ukraine should fight on until the end and seem to think the only way this war should end is with Putin’s complete defeat, what planet are these people living on? I don’t like Putin and don’t want him to win this war but fucking hell man it is time to face reality as well.

JazzG Starmer did yesterday and he came out well out of his meeting

He may have come put well in a PR sense but his meeting was a total failure, given the entire purpose of it was to try to persuade Trump to adopt a more moderate position on Ukraine.

Don't disagree with the assessment you posted but the WW3 warning with regards to America offering more support is pretty pejorative. There are any number of ways via any of the three scenarios mentioned that lead to WW3.

Zelenskyy desperately needs to buy time. A humiliating cease fire is probably the only way to do that, save for some curve ball like China involving itself.

JazzG I agree.

But the reason this is big news isn’t because the US is dismissive of the concerns of smaller countries (fuck knows how the US will approach Israel v Palestine).

If Russia decided to push forward and occupy a Baltic state will the US intervene? Is NATO a credible deterrent? If not, is there even any point in Europe expanding its military budget if all their weapon systems are reliant on the US anyway? And if the US isn’t the solution to European defence, exactly how much of will it cost to build a replacement model and how much will that cost an ageing continent with anaemic growth. What would that do for European solidarity? My worst case view is that by the end of this century Europe will be carved up by Russia (Eastern Europe), the US (Western Europe) and China (whatever’s left) if Europe + UK don’t recognise the hand their dealt

Mirth do you really believe Russia would invade a the Baltics? It took eight years of ethnic Russians getting shelled until they invaded a neutral country in Ukraine and look how that war is going, we're just going to assume they'll willy nilly march into a NATO country?