jones US government finances not being sustainable long term is something you'll need to substantiate.

US debt has grown more in the last 10 years than it did in the previous 200+ years. Deficit has averaged 3.8% of GDP over the past 50 years, it is currently at 6.2% and projected to come down to 5.2% by 2027 and then rise back up to by 2035. I ain't no financial expert like you but that doesn't sound very good to me.

jones What would be unsustainable long term is if governments followed your advice

My advice would be for them to cut down on wasteful spending and fraud, I think they'll be fine if they do that.

        JazzG Of course you'd hope they are looking at things carefully before just cutting them but clear there are mistakes being made. Mistake which they have acknowledged as well.

        That they are aware of, there is a strong likelihood, given the amount of climb downs and admissions, that they are making lots of mistakes and no doubt they will not realise with all of them.

        It's why I and others made the point about you can't just believe what these guys claim without showing the evidence to prove it. Not because I made my mind up about musk but his track record is one of misinformation and lies which looks like it's coming out in this stuff and it's entirely consistent with what he's previously done. He claims everything is fraud that he found 8bn then actually it's 8m and there were big mistakes. How can you have any confidence in the people doing this work and making these claims when they are doing that regularly.

        • Tam replied to this.

            JazzG debt naturally will go up when you have external shocks like covid or when global supply chains are broken like in 2022, on its own it's a number that doesn't mean anything. Algeria has a debt to gdp ratio of under 50%, Italy of 130% and Japan sits at 260%, can you infer anything from these figures?

            Agree cutting down on wasteful spending and fraud is sound advice, but like most sound advice it's pretty much useless in reality - most governments believe it or not already try to do that every day. One positive that came off it in the US at least is that USAID seems to be crippled for the foreseeable.

                The most important thing to do to bring the deficit under control is to collect taxes owed rather than making it impossible for the IRS to do so.
                Your information sources are a stream of raw sewage.

                JazzG I am not aware of any US citizens being starved by the current government cuts?

                You have no clue, best to just stop opining on this country's domestic politics.

                We literally have people starving, 15 million children hungry, and millions more in food precarity. Food in the UK is dirt cheap compared to the US. Hell, I'm struggling to feed my family because of these policies and I have a decent job.

                    awooga83 One of the biggest issues is that they aren't mistakes, they are completely avoidable mistakes.

                      Coombs Which specific current cuts have caused these children to starve?

                      jones One positive that came off it in the US at least is that USAID seems to be crippled for the foreseeable.

                      Why am I not surprised you liked USAID being nuked 😉 I do agree with you though...

                      As for your other points, I'm just making a general observation that the US has been racking up a lot of debt very quickly and running at a historically very high deficit. I personally don't think governments try that hard to save wastage, main reason is it isn't their money. Warren Buffett once joked that he could end the deficit by passing a law saying if it was above 3% of GDP all members of congress would be ineligible for re-election. His point I think is they don't really care. Politicians will throw money around, once it is time for them to leave end up in highly paid private work while other people pick up the mess they left behind.

                            JazzG I am not aware of any US citizens being starved by the current government cuts?

                            There's tens of millions who are living below the official poverty line in the United States, not that DOGE put them there. But if anyone wants to "make the place great" surely that'd be where to do some real work.

                                JazzG Which specific current cuts have caused these children to starve?

                                What? Seriously what the fuck does that even mean? What specific government policies made you such prick?

                                    Burnwinter they've literally paused federal reimbursements and even cut programs that subsidize infrastructure, energy, and basic necessities, mostly affecting poor working people, mostly white at that. This affects food banks, water, electricity, etc.

                                    Water bills are dependent on federal grants for ongoing infrastructure developments. If the feds won't reimburse, bill goes up. Same for energy, food, etc. Food banks are stretched thin, and families already on the brink are being pushed over the edge.

                                    I've sat by the hospital bed of a 5 year old who was near death from starvation in this fuckhole of a country, which relies on individuals to give up their own comforts to rescue a few from the pits of despair they are directly driven to by corporations and the governments that serve them.

                                    DOGE is literally starving people. Killing people. JazzyGs sassy ideological excrement is an abortion of thought that deserves no response but utter disdain.

                                        The people cheering for DOGE are the ones who think the most unfair thing about society is that they happen to pay a bit too much tax.

                                        Coombs What? Seriously what the fuck does that even mean? What specific government policies made you such prick?

                                        It means we are talking about the current cuts by DOGE. You said 15m kids are going hungry because of them so I asked you which of their cuts are causing these kids to go hungry, were they not going hungry before the new administration came in? No need for the insults. I get it you don't like the current lot,

                                        No specific government policy made me a prick, reading some of the opinions on here has 😉

                                        Coombs JazzyGs sassy ideological excrement is an abortion of thought that deserves no response but utter disdain.

                                        Firstly my name is not JazzyG. Petty insults coming out now, insult me all you like if it makes you feel better.

                                            JazzG why would you be surprised? If you look into USAID's track record and don't celebrate their demise there's something wrong with you imo.

                                            Buffett is part of the problem, except he most likely understands how economies work and still chats shit to influence economic policy in his interest. Politicians across the West cause a LOT more damage in comparison by not spending enough rather than spending too much, and if it is the latter it's always because some harebrained dickhead just told them to pump 5% of their GDP into bombs.

                                                jones why would you be surprised? If you look into USAID's track record and don't celebrate their demise there's something wrong with you imo.

                                                I was being sarcastic, saw Mike Benz on Joe Rogan the other day talking about USAID and he had an interesting quote, if it was too dirty for the CIA they gave it to USAID! Remember years ago a Pakistani guy I know telling me about USAID and how it was a bit shady.

                                                    JazzG trump and vance showing their true colours lecturing Zelenskyy on sacrifice they have no idea of the meaning of the word and to stage it just to try to humiliate him is totally pathetic but just who they are.

                                                        Just beating up on the poor fool. Feel sorry for him.

                                                        Unfortunate times where we have these immature leaders all around.
                                                        Kinda not very hard to see trump’s point in the ensuing tweet he put out, if you ignore the dramatic nature of this crazy shouting match.