https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-doge-social-security-150-year-old-benefits/
Follow on from the previous discussion which suggests some of the things DOGE/Musk have been claiming might have actually been they don't understand the systems they've been looking at. This doesn't mean either side is correct but it's why you need verification of claims with evidence rather then claims from Musk etc.
If there was any doubt about Trump's allegiances his latest comments about Ukraine are utterly disgraceful. People are dying and the war should never have started and really it's because Ukraine didn't do a deal to give their country away. No mention of Putin or Russia having any blame for actually starting the war or pressuring them because he's best buds with Putin. The guy is a total clown but worse then that as president he now had the power to try to force these positions on other countries. He has no honour or sense of strategical consideration. This is the person who is going to save democracy though
He just looks even more in Putin's pocket then ever all his talking points being regurgitated.
awooga83 what did you expect from the guy who left out the victimized country and neighbouring countries from the peace talks? He hasn’t a fragment of empathy, and that’s why he moves like this. His supporters back home are cheering the strength and purpose. It’s easy to make progress when you do things alone.
awooga83 I think that's valid absolutely about funding. But my point is the way they are talking about engagement with Russia they are not acting as allies and the actions that are being attributed to them it's going to be very bad for Europe longer term. The trump administration seem to want to be better friends with Russia which is a massive thing Europe have to deal with which includes funding.
End of the day there needs to be dialogue to end the war, there seems to be no appetite to either properly fund/support Ukraine by the Europeans and they don't seem to want the war to end either. The settlement is going to be pretty shit for Ukraine, they are losing the war and the losers usually end up getting a shit deal. It isn't right but that is what happens in war.
The Europeans need to step up and make sure this deal for Ukraine is as good as it possibly can be. Ukraine have mistakenly thought the West would back them until the end, stories came out last year Russia were willing to sign a treaty and end the war but Boris Johnson told them to keep fighting and they'd keep backing them. They've been badly misled imo.
awooga83 But it's not the asking for Europe to pull it's weight. It's actively working behind Europe and Ukraine's backs and seeming to give Russia everything it wants and trying to welcome them back into the fold with no consequences. The message to Putin or any other authoritarian leader is do what you want and there will ultimately be no consequences.
That approach will threaten European security and Europe will have to step up which involves distancing ourselves from the US because it looks like they are more interested in siding and become good friends with Russia. Trump has done much more then say you need to pay your dues he's focusing on alining the US with Russia which I don't think any US admin has done. That's a very different prospect and is a threat to Europe. Putin is also a much smarter operator then trump so he's coming out of this a big winner if it plays out as it is being reported. The UK will need to align itself closer to Europe as one of the outcomes from these shifts in my view our own security will require it.
Rightly or wrongly the US want Russia on their side. Maybe not even on their side but they want them out of China's orbit. There is talk that Cold War 2.0 has already started with China, this war has created a China, Iran and Russia alliance. The Americans want to break that alliance. That alliance and the weaponisation of the Dollar threatens to undermine the US dollar hegemony, those are the words of Janet Yellen. The current American regime will simply will not stand for that. This is why they are even talking of lifting sanctions off the Russians, they are basically saying leave the war, abandon any alliance with China/Iran and this is what you get in return. I think we are a long way from a deal yet but it is important that everyone talks.
If European alliances end up getting burned I think that is a price they are willing to pay, mainly to protect their own empire. The Europeans have got themselves into such a mess they'll struggle to sort themselves out let alone do anything more. The Europeans still need the Americans and the current administration will take advantage of that. I think the Russians are a spent force as well, will be a long time before they can threaten any other country.
I'm not offering an opinion on whether it is right or wrong but merely what I think is going on. I don't agree with a lot of the talk coming out by the Americans, they could and should handle this better. Trump does have this thing about strong leaders/dictators and I'm sure Putin will try to take advantage of that. Putin is a master manipulator and in Trump he'll find someone who may take him on his word....
The UK doesn't need to align exclusively with anyone, we need to get our own fucking act in order and build up our depleted arm defences.
JazzG I'm not offering an opinion on whether it is right or wrong but merely what I think is going on.
Yeah, I share your view on where the world seems to be heading. To make things more obvious, Trump's US are still happy to antagonise China (who've been very quiet this past month): https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/2/17/us-drops-wording-saying-it-does-not-support-taiwan-independence
In that context, Europe isn't really of strategic interest to the US anymore in a world centered around the Indo-Pacific.
JazzG The UK doesn't need to align exclusively with anyone, we need to get our own fucking act in order and build up our depleted arm defences.
I don't really agree with this though - in a world of hard power, there's nothing the UK (or any individual mid-tier nation) can do to compete with the US or China if neither are your allies. Even if the UK doubled their military spending, it would be irrelevant because there's still headwinds on the economy, lacks natural resources and overall demographic decline to seriously project power beyond Europe. The only path forward is alliance building.
So now there's these "peace talks", and they are a grotesque spectacle.
But even if Trump's ignorant, scattershot rhetoric is disgusting given his influence and the stakes, and the likes of Lavrov are smug and vile, a lot comes down to the real commitment of European NATO nations, and not just the newly recalcitrant US under Trump, to whatever security guarantees may be agreed for a new version of the Minsk agreements.
sat in a global meeting this week. was interesting to see senior government representatives from all the major western countries condemn russia. all except one.
JazzG I think it is a massive strategic mistake, Putin's Russia are only ever on your side if you give them everything they want. They don't do compromise. If your aiming to make them allies then you will be giving into whatever demands they have. I don't disagree there has been a reprioritisation and that trump would sell all of Europe to Russia if he could that's very much his attitude. It's why Europe needs to accept that the US are not your friends with this current administration.
On your point about dialogue that's fine but where has he condemned Russia. Everything is will Ukraine made this happen, blaming them for the invasion a decision that only Russia has responsibility for. Also the insulting idea that Ukraine should have done a deal giving up their territory to avoid the war. That policy has been known to be at successful through history at solving conflicts
If they think getting Russia on side stops an alliance with China that's proper deluded, Russia under Putin wants to act against Western interests and he will continue to play that game. If the US thinks they can deal with Putin they really haven't been paying attention. Also what will be China's calculation of launching a military invasion for territory they want. Stick the course the US will always give up in the end the will of authoritarian government will outlast the US and they will come for a deal for money eventually.
Russia in its entire history of existence has never had allies. It has had vassals and enemies, that's it.
JazzG How long did Europe expect to keep getting subsidized security for? They've pissed their money away on other things, neglected their defence and now scrambling around panicking about it. Europe has been benefitting from a peace dividend and that time is now up.
That is not even the worst part of it. Europe/EU has bought oil, gas, coal, fertilizer etc from Russia for €2-4 hundred billions since just 2022. The russian war effort is completely dependent on his funding (and western currency). All because of an insanely naive energy policy...
Strategically, the US seems to have been happy to divide Europe and Russia since the short-lived attempt made by NATO to woo Russia ended in the late 00s.
Germany used to import around 5bn cubic metres of gas (as much as or more than €5–10bn in value I think …) per month from Russia until mid-late 2022, and the amount, whatever the real amount may be, is now stated as zero—and surely it must have collapsed with the loss of Nord Stream 1 and 2.
The "Ones and Tooze" podcast had an interesting episode discussing US energy security the other day. The US is now self-sufficient as far as energy goes due to onshore gas and renewable developments, notwithstanding a huge nett movement of gas and oil across its borders.
I would guess all mainstream parties in US politics, including "deep state" types, are very happy if the EU and Russia don't get on. Especially with Russia increasingly locked into the Chinese trajectory.
This makes the difference between Biden and Trump pretty much their wildly different agendas re: NATO.
Burnwinter yeah and the reality that the US under trump is not a European ally. In fact with their actions with Russia they are actually a threat to European security, so European leaders are going to have to get used to that and respond as necessary
awooga83 agree the US is definitely hostile to European security and energy interests - expensive American LNG vs cheap Russian gas, stoking wars in the Middle East knowing refugees will go to Europe as a result etc - but this has been the case since forever.
Even discounting all the documented interfering in European elections since the 40s - just on a very basic level why would the US as the world's sole superpower allow Europe to become a bloc that could become its rival? Because Western values and rules-based order?
Burnwinter official imports are zero, notwithstanding fossil products sold by Russia to India or other third countries and then re-sold to Germany with a different provenance label and a premium slapped on it.
To add to what you said US policy has always been to drive Russia and Europe and specifically Germany apart. If it were up to them Germany would have never been allowed to buy Russian gas for 30+ years, it was because of social democrat politicians who actually put German interests above American it did happen; all scholars agree the whole 'economic miracle' of rising from the ashes to a world economic power would have been impossible without cheap Russian gas.
