Burnwinter I don't think we look like league winners so far, but looking like league winners got us nowhere last season.

That defensive triangle is of Saliba, Gabriel and Rice is looking pretty characteristic of a champion though! Goals conceded, xGA is looking pretty top notch.

Burnwinter We now have more than one way to win.

Agree, think multiple approaches are in development, some effective application so far. It will be intriguing to see how the team applies tools at the business end of the cups and leagues.

Arteta has continued a good trend into this season in terms of defensive substitutions to secure a result. Effective offensive substitutions like Trossard at Goodison, Havertz at Gtech hopefully tempt him to explore how much more he can accomplish using the bench forwards.

        Watch the key moments from this game and 99% of them are game scenarios with 5-8 Brentford outfield players packed into their own box. I'd say the same for most game moments from 3/4ths of the opponents we've faced this season, and pretty much an opposition adjustment that for me has spread rapidly since Late Winter/Spring '23. Crossing and switching possession (horseshoe) are extremely logical approaches to combat that. A glut of corners is an unsurprising byproduct of that. Very much agree that we should still strive to i) play more progressive when we can before the opponent fully settles into shape, ii) to test subtle variations against a deep block and iii) to have another capable operator between the lines. However, think some perspectives on our team are a little harsh and unrealistic/unpragmatic.

          KingslandBarge I agree with the observations, however I would tend to think all the teams in or around the top 4 will face a low block in most of their games, and would need to figure out how to overcome it. City, Liverpool, Newcastle?, ourselves. In my opinion (eye test, haven't looked for supporting data), our football is the least appealing of all the top teams, and probably our xG for/big chances created is lowest.

          We play like a Mourinho managed team back when he was a half decent manager. Arteta is doing similar things when it comes to man management (poor), resource management (a tad excessive, even though I don't really care about this), and choice of football style (focused primarily on defensive and midfield stability and a heavy reliance on brilliant wingers think Damien Duff/Joe Cole/Arjen Robben).

          We are winning the tight games right now, but if we continue like this, the moment we hit a skid and are not able to score goals or win games and the boys begin to tire or lose confidence, then it's all going to come crashing down.

              i always liked don simeone. i don't hate defensive coaches as long as you win. if arteta turns out like him in terms of results i will be happy.

              Do you have a rebuttal to the comments I made, or are you merely making a passing observation/judgement sir?

                flobaba I think you're right about Arteta being a bit Mourinho-esque. We are trying to win the league though, you'll always be in a position where if you stop scoring it goes to shit, even more so now with City setting such a high standard.

                The one thing I keep coming back to is that Odegaard is way off form. If he finds his game again the whole thing raises a couple of levels.

                    flobaba

                    We’re nothing like a Mourinho, low block, counter attacking based team. We are much more like a Pep City side stylistically from a few years ago when they had Sane, Sterling, Silva etc. We are just much slower and more cumbersome about how we move the ball. For me that’s about being good. There’s no such tactic that says do the same things but slower so that you’re more predictable.

                    Martinelli and Saka are not used to being doubled up on, Saka said it himself. Ode isn’t used to trying to unlock against two banks of 5. It’s going to take some adaptation.

                    You’re right that our current open play xG isn’t really ideal for a title challenge, but we are only about half a goal off per game off from the ideal level. It won’t take a lot to remedy that given some of the other stats in our favour.

                        Qwiss I'm slightly mixed with Odegaard. He has undoubted quality but still had too many games where he's a bit of a none presence and my niggling doubt about him and if he can reach that elite tier. He needs to be a little more consistent to elevate to that top level and we need that from him to win the big honours.

                        Similarly when we have Martinelli and Saka getting doubled up on that's when one of our other midfielders needs to step up if they overload one of those they try to drive into the gaps but we still try to force everything where our opponent expects us to. That's where I wish we were a bit more reactive in our attacking play.

                            flobaba Similar sentiments to goon's reply but fair concerns. I did find myself a little re-evaluative after watching Spurs yesterday. Bregrudingly, some great football on display from them. I'll lean into some of the reasons stated here for why the oomph may not be far off, within the pragmatic frameworks we have been pushed into. Did you watch City vs Liverpool by the way? Thought City were applying pretty much the same approach as we typically do.
                            Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert rowr

                                Mate, nobody would be complaining about boring controlball against Liverpool, which is the most dangerous attack City will face all season.

                                • goon replied to this.

                                  QuincyAbeyie

                                  Have you enjoyed City’s football otherwise? I think it’s been atrocious.

                                  Actually think Chelsea and Spurs have probably played the most attractive football, and part of that is just about tempo. Beyond that its pretty dire.

                                      goon Have you enjoyed City’s football otherwise? I think it’s been atrocious.

                                      I never enjoy City's football. I definitely think it's more aesthetically pleasing than what we put out most weeks though. I do seem to remember you thinking that last season as well though, and that's the best team I've seen in many years.

                                      If the word to describe their football is atrocious, what would describe ours? Is it much, much better than theirs or just slightly less atrocious in your opinion?

                                        Qwiss The one thing I keep coming back to is that Odegaard is way off form.

                                        I think a combination of this and a highly idealized perception of last season is really all there is to this discussion. We had 1.89 xG/90 last year and we have 1.74 xG/90 this year. This is a noticeable but really not cataclysmic shift here. I think this is fully explained by Jesus' availability and Odegaard just needing to play better. Non-shot xG models liked us a lot more than shot-based xG models last year too (i.e. we were very "control"-y and relatively not super "shoot"-y). There's not really any difference there.

                                            DiabyKungFu I think a combination of this and a highly idealized perception of last season is really all there is to this discussion. We had 1.89 xG/90 last year and we have 1.74 xG/90 this year.

                                            People are only idealizing last season before things went to shit though.

                                                QuincyAbeyie People are only idealizing last season before things went to shit though.

                                                Then they're talking about a team that had almost no impactful injuries versus a team that has dealt with quite a few impactful injuries.

                                                    QuincyAbeyie I'd imagine that's why we bought more depth this summer.

                                                    Yeah. Once we started getting injuries last season, we went on a 68 point pace. This season we're on an 88 point pace. Mission accomplished there.