Sicario2 - Tier 1 sorry Sicario, I don't live in the black and white world you dwell in. In your world, you either win or you don't and that's fine, my uncle is the same. I think there's a bit more nuance to the 38 game Premier League season than that.

And I really struggle to understand the anger of so many posts here, given that when I came back to the forum a few years ago, our biggest problem was getting back to the top four. Now it's ”we're not going to win the league, let's sack the manager!" Make that make sense.

      RocktheCasbah
      6 years without a trophy IS black and white. Stop deluding yourself. Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

      There will be a point that no matter how good Artera is, his message will lose meaning. Only so many times you can fuck up and keeping motivating the players

          JazzG if a better manager is out there, say a Simone Inzaghi, then we get him. We got to be cut throat with Artera likes he’s been cut throat with some of our players.

          Not winning a trophy in 6 years would mean poor squad building and bottling it at huge moments. We cannot continue to waste time and money like this.

          Next year if no trophies, and I don’t care if we lose to a last min goal in CL final or lose the league on goal difference, i want him out.

          We need some accountability not this Netflix FC bullshit.

          Slot won the title in his first year - so no fucking excuses next year. Zero.

              Gurgen Artera spent how much on calafoiri and merino. Could have signed a proper striker last summer. This season is on him. No more excuses. Make Arsenal great again.

              I don’t accept mediocrity like you guys. We are Arsenal football club. Look at our history, our managers, I don’t accept winning nothing in a 6 year project and keep saying ‘next year, next year’.

              Enough is enough

                Sicario2 - Tier 1 years without a trophy IS black and white. Stop deluding yourself. Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

                Do you have this post saved in drafts?

                Bored of reading it, bored of your inability to understand, accept and relate to points of view that don't tally with yours. My opinion, as voiced here or elsewhere, has no bearing on Mikel Arteta's continued employment at Arsenal Football Club. So what does it matter to you?

                    RocktheCasbah it’s a forum and we are discussing the merits of the manager, get off your high horse.

                    I’m just sick and tired of Arsenal supporters like you who paint a rosy picture and just accept mediocrity. Every action should have a consequence. Action of not winning for 6 years deserves the biggest consequence.

                        Sicario2 - Tier 1 but we're not discussing anything, you just keep repeating yourself.

                        I have been respectful of your opinion (till now) even though I don't really agree with it (and did we not agree with each other last night?). I'm not getting the same back from you, just the usual wake up and smell the coffee nonsense that you always say.

                          Sicario2 - Tier 1 also, you don't get to say to me "stop deluding yourself" and then tell me to get off my high horse.

                          You want to have an actual discussion? Great, have at it, but let's discuss it properly and stop blaming me, just a guy with a phone in his hand, for what you seem to think is the fall of Arsenal Football Club.

                              RocktheCasbah And I really struggle to understand the anger of so many posts here, given that when I came back to the forum a few years ago, our biggest problem was getting back to the top four. Now it's ”we're not going to win the league, let's sack the manager!" Make that make sense.

                              I don't necessarily agree. Can't it make sense that the expectations are higher than when he took us to 8th?

                                  QuincyAbeyie absolutely, understand expectations being higher but we can all see how this season has unfolded - 5 red cards and an entire frontline +1 banjaxed for months, an injury that has ruined Martin Odegaard's season. Should it really be that surprising that not all of us are rushing to get the manager's head on a spike?

                                      RocktheCasbah

                                      Ok let’s get this straight.

                                      1) You think that Arteta is the man because things are out of his control? Next year if we don’t win anything again it’s ok because in 2022 we finished 5th?

                                      2) Nuance for you is important but that only gets your so far. Trophies are binary esp when it comes to a longer period. Nuance you can use for 1,2, 3 seasons but how long will you use nuance to cover up accountability?

                                      3) what we did 4/5 years ago is immaterial. In your job if you do poorly this year, would you tell your manager ‘but in 2021 I produced the same results as I did this year, you should be happy’. We should be thinking and moving forwards.

                                      We spent £105m on a player in 2023 to win titles not to finish top 4, the club has moved on from that period. So is relying on Jesus/Zinny.

                                          Sicario2 - Tier 1 There is no guarantee that someone like Inzaghi will win us a title. He's won 1 title in 4/5 years at Inter hasn't he? He is a top coach but I don't think he is better than Arteta. We've gone a fucking great manager who has turned this club around, the disrespect he gets is unreal. This season has been a massive disappointment and we've got nobody to blame but ourselves but last two seasons it was just bad luck and the year before we peaked too early and couldn't keep it going.

                                          Not winning a trophy can mean a lot of things, you say poor squad building but I'd argue we have one of the best squads in the world. We just don't have enough numbers and that has to be addressed in the summer. If this summer goes bad then I think the mood around the club will change for the worse and very quickly. We have a good summer we elevate ourselves onto the next level.

                                              @RocktheCasbah red cards is another easy excuse. Tross saw a ref send off Rice so why do the same error. MLS saw Saliba get sent off for pulling down the man so why do the same error.

                                              Injuries happen to every club. It comes down the poor squad building if Ode is a single point of failure. If we don’t have proper cover for Kai that’s on us.

                                              Everything this season is on us, on Artera. We are to blame. The quicker we can be accountable to ourselves the quicker we take our heads from the sand and become winners.

                                              Let’s forget this lets feel sorry for us energy. It’s not easy winning but we need to come to terms with this sooner than later if we want to move on.

                                              I personally hate excuses. If you work in sales and there is a recession, are you going to blame the economy or work doubly harder to hit your targets?

                                              If we get fucked by ref’s, let’s score twice to account for any ref wrong doings.

                                              If we have injuries, let’s buy some better back up’s and rest our main players when we go 3/4 nill up to counter this.

                                              Everything is in our control and the buck ultimately stops with manager. We must demand more and stop being cry babies.

                                              Sicario2 - Tier 1 1) You think that Arteta is the man because things are out of his control? Next year if we don’t win anything again it’s ok because in 2022 we finished 5th?

                                              2) Nuance for you is important but that only gets your so far. Trophies are binary esp when it comes to a longer period. Nuance you can use for 1,2, 3 seasons but how long will you use nuance to cover up accountability?

                                              3) what we did 4/5 years ago is immaterial. In your job if you do poorly this year, would you tell your manager ‘but in 2021 if I did the same performance you would be happy?’ We should be thinking and moving forwards.

                                              I give up.

                                                  JazzG they’re never guarantees but trying with the same manager year on year and getting no results is worse. Is there a guarantee with Arteta?

                                                  Inzaghi has gotten his team to a CL final and won a league - more than Artera. Inter beat us in their own back yard this season too.

                                                      Woah...a lot to unpack here. Not going to respond to it all coherently and others have articulated a lot of what I think already but a couple of reflections:

                                                      1. Success is not as binary as has been made out. You have to apply context to every situation, as Jazz and others have explained. We should judge each season on its own merits and within the context it was completed. It's also relative; you should judge it based on where we've come from. Slot winning the league in his first season ignores the context of Liverpool being consistently competitive for a number of years under Klopp (plus...Mo Salah as a generational talent).

                                                      2. Secondly and apologies if this more personal but I think managing your own expectations has to come into this discussion. The trajectory of this season has been telegraphed for some time based on the clear problems we've had up front all season. And that was a failing of the summer window, the way we approached it as a club etc. But if you constantly recalibrate your expectations to 'high' every time there's even a sniff of weakness from our rivals, you're going to end up being more devasted than you need to be and subsequently project our situation as being far more dire than it actually is. Which is why everyone from the Kroenke's down to Arteta, our captain and most of the other players are getting accused of being failures this week. Which I don't believe is accurate or in proportion. The club fucked up this summer but to suggest that everyone involved in this project is a failure is misaligned to reality.

                                                      Sicario2 - Tier 1 what we did 4/5 years ago is immaterial. In your job if you do poorly this year, would you tell your manager ‘but in 2021 if I did the same performance you would be happy?’ We should be thinking and moving forwards.

                                                      Look it's pretty simple.

                                                      If you're really serious about us winning trophies then you aren't interested in whether you, @Sicario2 - Tier 1, me or some imagined "conscience of Arsenal" feels happy.

                                                      These are the questions that bother you:

                                                      1. Who should we sell or sign given our resources?
                                                      2. What tactical adaptations or options are missing?
                                                      3. Who is replacing Edu and why?
                                                      4. Do we continue with Mikel Arteta?

                                                      My answers:

                                                      1. Recruitment
                                                        • Two forwards who are either elite or have that potential, at least one left and at least one central, preferably both flexible
                                                        • Stop looking for high defensive work rate strikers, as we have those options, emphasise control and finishing
                                                        • Elite midfielder (Zubimendi)
                                                        • Sell, loan or memory hole Tomi, Zinchenko, Tierney, Jorginho and Partey, Sterling and Jesus
                                                        • Retain Kiwior and anyone else not mentioned
                                                        • Promote Skelly (LB and part time DM) and Nwaneri (shadow for Saka and Øde)
                                                      2. We're missing a faster, looser and more dynamic version of our football coming off the left. Get Martinelli, Calafiori, Skelly, Rice, and two new signings on the case all pre-season. Make the left about more than creating width.
                                                      3. Not Jason Ayto. Get in a classy football obsessive with charm, profile and strong opinions. Someone who's not Arteta's dogsbody. The Sociedad guy would suit me.
                                                      4. Yes. How on earth is getting rid of Arteta while doing (1), (2) and (3) going to improve our chances? It won't, so he stays.

                                                      I believe if the club locks onto its stars and puts something like this package together, a league title is there for us, and the conscience of Arsenal will sort itself out after that.