The project is over : Page 2 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

The project is over

Qwiss

RocktheCasbah it's not gone but the season is slipping away. We have to beat Spurs on Wednesday no. There is no other result that's acceptable. If we do and Liverpool drop points at Forrest then it's back on.

QuincyAbeyie

RocktheCasbah We lost three Premier League games across the calendar year of 2024.

I agree with your overall point (although the reason the season is slipping away definitely isn't just due to one week), but this "couting losses" thing looks like it's trying to make the situation sound more positive than it is. Two draws and a win is worse than two wins and a loss. Counting losses doesn't paint an accurate picture.

RocktheCasbah

QuincyAbeyie yeah, I guess it's true that this isn't just down to one week. I can't argue that.

I'm just trying to say really, for as bad as things feel today (and they do feel really bad), we are still a very good team and - as Qwiss alludes to - could be back within striking distance of Liverpool in a game's time. So, essentially, the same message as I had after the Newcastle game.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

RocktheCasbah
This is much worse mate.

This time we have had the title tangled in front of us before been taking away.

When we were shit, we were shit. We knew were shit and expectations were managed.

This time around we expected the world but came out empty handed and a feeling of big regret. What if we beat Villa, what if Trossard had scored, what if Son hadn’t fumbled his shot.

It’s also the daunting feeling have we wasted our chance.

When we were shit the only way was up. So can’t compare at all.

RocktheCasbah

Sicario2 - Tier 1 completely disagree with you, I would much rather be up there and challenging for things, even if we don't get them, then watching an Arsenal team that nobody believed in, or cared about. The dog days of Wenger and that period April-December 2019 were awful.

But your perspective is your perspective, if you think this is worse than then, fair enough.

Don Pacifico

Sicario2 - Tier 1 It’s also the daunting feeling have we wasted our chance.

I hear you but...the great thing about football is it never ends.

I'm only half-joking.

Truthfully though, who would have predicted Liverpool storming ahead this season? Who would have predicted Man City dropping a clanger of a season? I take your point that there's a missed opportunity here but it also shows how there is a degree of randomness to football that means nothing you think is that certain is guaranteed. There's no reason we can't turn round next season and have another shot at the title (and win it).

Thinking we can't is loser talk! 😉

Gurgen

Who is "we"? I can assure you the board did not expect a title or to be challenging for it this early. You are free to assess things according to your expectations but Arteta isn't being sacked based on your expectations.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Simply put, the bigger the expectation, the harder the loss is to take when nothing materialises but we can agree to disagree.

JazzG

Good to see a nice rational argument being put forward here....

lorddulaarsenal

I don’t see it as our chances will go. If anything you can see how good we are without a lethal striker. The route to raising our level is very clear

Sicario2 - Tier 1

The problem is when you become a nearly man/squad it’s hard to lose this tag and actually get something over the line. Look at Spurs, it’s a reason they haven’t won anything since 2008.

When you don’t win, Arteta’s motivation tactics could also fall on death ears. There’s only so much you can keep coming back from adversity.

Saying next year, next year is great but we have only so much time with these players, it’s finite.

I can also see Arteta walking at the end of the season esp if he’s not backed this Jan. Only so much one can take.

Don Pacifico

Sicario2 - Tier 1 The problem is when you become a nearly man/squad it’s hard to lose this tag and actually get something over the line. Look at Spurs, it’s a reason they haven’t won anything since 2008.

The causation is the wrong way round - Spurs are known as a banter team because they never win. Not the other way round.

People took the piss out of us when we went through our trophy drought under Wenger and then we won three FA Cups in the space of five years. Liverpool hadn't won the league for 30 odd years until Klopp. It's easy to get hung up on reputation but I don't think it affects players as much as you think.

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Saying next year, next year is great but we have only so much time with these players, it’s finite.

I can also see Arteta walking at the end of the season esp if he’s not backed this Jan. Only so much one can take.

I get the anxiety to a point but you're worried about Arteta, Saliba and Saka leaving in the next 12 months, as if they're all certainties to happen rather than in fact hypotheticals. There is zero sign to believe any of that will happen so no point stressing until there's proof to the contrary.

daredevil

My biggest worry is that our recruitment will struggle to replace some of the players we expect to depart in the coming windows.

I know people like to underplay the importance of Zinchenko and Xhaka, but we haven't had a fully functioning left side since they left/fell off. Merino and Calafiori appear for various reasons as downgrades, and I'm concerned that Partey and Jorginho will also be downgraded due to a difficulty in finding players who can offer their skillsets on their best days.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

If only we still had scouts.

banduan

Last year we had one of the youngest teams in the league. We're still one of the younger ones. We've got plenty of time.

samthegooner

Yeah... I just can't get behind this "chicken little" pessimism that is running rampant through sections of the Arsenal fanbase right now. Even if we had made signings this summer, I have my doubts on if we would have been able to absorb long term injuries to Odegaard and Saka this year. No club, barring maybe Madrid, can deal with injuries to their top 2 attacking players. Hopefully, we can build less of a reliance on these two players with effective recruitment in the summer but I just feel like this is one of those seasons were nothing has gone our way- yet we are still second in the PL behind a team with ridiculous form (and a lot of luck) and third in Champions League. Just can't get behind calling the project a failure after we dealt with a decade of incompetence and getting pounded by our biggest rivals on the regular.

banduan

When Pool and Chelski had an injury crisis last season they fell way behind. Pool were even on top at one point.
We've had injuries since the start of the season and we're second. So yes, it's frustrating but I don't hold anything against Mikel this season aside from constantly getting shown up by Fulham since the last season. We'd even started to rotate players for once.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

banduan
Chelsea were shit from beginning of last season. Fell behind what? Liverpool, I’ll give you.

flobaba

https://arseblog.com/2025/01/human-behaviour/

Agree with this article by Stillman.

Qwiss

flobaba I think the main atmosphere booster before was COVID. Every live event felt like a huge celebration after it.

banduan

flobaba yeah so much of our reactions is result-oriented.

All the complaints about having no ideas for the Manc game for example. The match I remembered, we were creating multiple kinds of chances (and missing all of them). We were definitely full of ideas until ET when everyone was just knackered anyway.

RocktheCasbah

Qwiss definitely something to that, but as James and I were discussing on Wednesday, if you think about the atmosphere on the last day of the 21/22 season, when we'd blown top 4, it was absolutely incredible. I don't think that was just about post COVID celebration, I think that was recognition that despite having fucked it, we were on the way back.

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