Clrnc Ancelotti touches on this in an interview I saw recently. Basically there is such a thing as too much instruction, and this has the effect of stifling player creativity. Our boys don't really try to figure things out if they can't win their duels or find space. They just try the same thing over and over again as described by Kel. That's why you hardly see give and goes and third man combinations. Too risky. The preference is the safe, "control" option. We bore the opposition until they make a mistake and we are able to capitalize.

      Kel Varnsen yup. That's a stark drop that can't be explained away by "Xhaka". This is absolutely by design and it's horrible football.

        Kel Varnsen

        Things change.

        Injuries and form aside, the idea that the opposition will just let you keep doing what you’re very good at is naive. We started seeing it at times last season, speaking of which, what was our open play xG from the second half of last season?

        ‘They were causing havoc’ - what were they doing then that they are not doing now? Saka still held the width mostly, White’s overlaps were still restrained, Ode still held that same pocket of space he does now, and Partey wasn’t injured.

        All of this is hard to prove either way. But here’s my prediction, feel free to bookmark it. At some point we will start to see the fluidity return to our football this season and our xG will increase to expected levels. The assumption on here will be that Arteta realised the error of his ways and taken off the hand break. The truth will be closer to a combination of us adapting to our new environment and the return of form and fitness of our best players.

        And before you all pay me to tell your futures, I’m just predicting that was was said the season before last, and then last season when the football improved, will just repeat itself.

            "At some point" we'll play better, eh? Gee, why don't you just give me the lottery numbers while you're at it?

            Anyway, if your prediction is true then it sounds like all Arteta can do is wait until issues resolve themselves. Sounds nice.

            • goon replied to this.

              Clrnc agree with this. Arteta has been all about instruction and heavily micromanages with a focus on the defensive aspect of the team absolutely first. I think Martinelli and Saka are predicable because they are drilled to play that way, we don't have scope for improvisation and it's very much in line with that idea of controlling the game. We've been a very defence focused team since Arteta took over and that has made us hard to play against. But we haven't really shown an attacking character or playing style that matches our defensive game.. It's very Mourinho esque. If you win the big trophies people aren't going to say much but if you don't it's not a cat fun environment to be in.

                  awooga83 we literally scored 88 goals last season, playing some great football. If Arteta's only concern was defence, there's no way that happens - he himself has spoken of the need to score 90 goals a season. Us winning games 1-0 all the time can not logically be part of that plan.

                  I've said it already today, but whilst I understand the disappointment in our performances this season, I don't think it's realistic to expect us to play like we did last season - Xhaka's gone, Ramsdale dropped and literally everyone else who was part of the main XI last season has missed some part of this season.

                      QuincyAbeyie Anyway, if your prediction is true then it sounds like all Arteta can do is wait until issues resolve themselves. Sounds nice.

                      Pretty much. You wouldn't want him to micromanage too much.

                        As usual, the battle lines are drawn between those who see the negatives and those who see the positives. It's been like this ever since Arteta joined and it's the same people arguing for and against. CBA with that shit and I'll just rejoice that we go top of the table.

                        flobaba

                        Out of interest, what do you put Madrid playing garbage football down to this season?

                            RocktheCasbah

                            I personally think some of our performance last season was top of our level not so much about the manager just some players in top form and outperforming their level. This season and the horseshoe tactics is more reminiscent of the way we've generally played under Arteta. You can also see it in his recruitment strategy we've spent decent getting the back right but we have players like Eddie and reiss Nelson who busy aren't the level we need.

                            I don't expect us to match last season as I think we would inevitably drop from there because it was near the peak of our level for 2/3 of the season. I think we relied a little too much on Martinelli or Saka will just make it happen alone rather then creating game states to allow them to exploit.

                            Anyway as with everything is subjective, if we make this level of performance work and win the title there is nothing that I could say to refute that. I just think the level we have shown so far offensively probably sees us come short and it's been this way pretty much the whole season and it's cost us a few games, Fulham, Chelsea, Newcastle which is the fine margins that I think could see us lose out over the season.

                              goon

                              Couldn't find open play xG from set time periods last season, but overall xG has been:
                              First 14 games last year: 2.11
                              Last 24 games last year: 1.96
                              First 13 games this year: 1.91

                              Biggest difference seems to be we're creating fewer chances (xG) from open play, and more from corners and penalties (ca. 30% more). Another interesting stat is that last year we had 15.6 shots per game. This year we've had 14.2 shots per game. Fits with the other stats and the "eye test". We're more hesitant and less decisive in the final third.

                              But fair. It is difficult to identify the why here. I think it is Arteta's fault. Either by design or as a byproduct of his neurotic "over coaching" as some said. Hope we improve, because these things are not permanent.

                                  For me it is just simple matter of the personnel. Our midfield balance is not right without Partey and we have had a striker in Jesus who has had a really stop start season or a not quite good enough Eddie. That's 2 players right down our spine who were massively influential in our attacking fluidity last season... Could Arteta commit a load more players forward to compensate, sure but why would we when it has got us to the top of the league..

                                  There can be other reasons why it's not quite clicking going forward and maybe Arteta hasn't found the right blend of midfield to make it work when it has been staring him in the face (can't see it myself) but it's surprising and amusing hear that there is still this idea that Arteta intentionally doesn't want to play attacking.

                                    Doc the assertion is that he is obsessed with controlling the game, and it obviously has come at the cost of attacking output.

                                      goon
                                      no prolific goal scorer, whether from wide or up top. same as us really. bellingham popping up with goals should be a bonus not something you build around.

                                        Feels weird to support an Arsenal so good at the back but so bland going forward. Doesn't feel right but I don't care if it means we keep winning.

                                        Qwiss Saka and Ode are both way below their best but we still won, we had a very marginal VAR call against us, we are solid as fuck. I choose to believe we can only get better.

                                        I think this is the realistic outlook. It's positive we are churning the points without everything that worked last season working. We now have more than one way to win.

                                        I don't think we look like league winners so far, but looking like league winners got us nowhere last season. We're top of the table, which is impressive under the circumstances. It creates the possibility of a benefit if our right side starts working.

                                        What annoys me is we spent a vast sum on midfielders and we're still waiting for Partey to come back in and supposedly save the day.

                                            Burnwinter I don't think we look like league winners so far, but looking like league winners got us nowhere last season.

                                            That defensive triangle is of Saliba, Gabriel and Rice is looking pretty characteristic of a champion though! Goals conceded, xGA is looking pretty top notch.

                                            Burnwinter We now have more than one way to win.

                                            Agree, think multiple approaches are in development, some effective application so far. It will be intriguing to see how the team applies tools at the business end of the cups and leagues.

                                            Arteta has continued a good trend into this season in terms of defensive substitutions to secure a result. Effective offensive substitutions like Trossard at Goodison, Havertz at Gtech hopefully tempt him to explore how much more he can accomplish using the bench forwards.

                                                  Watch the key moments from this game and 99% of them are game scenarios with 5-8 Brentford outfield players packed into their own box. I'd say the same for most game moments from 3/4ths of the opponents we've faced this season, and pretty much an opposition adjustment that for me has spread rapidly since Late Winter/Spring '23. Crossing and switching possession (horseshoe) are extremely logical approaches to combat that. A glut of corners is an unsurprising byproduct of that. Very much agree that we should still strive to i) play more progressive when we can before the opponent fully settles into shape, ii) to test subtle variations against a deep block and iii) to have another capable operator between the lines. However, think some perspectives on our team are a little harsh and unrealistic/unpragmatic.