Saka: Page 7 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Saka

RocktheCasbah

Big day for Bukayo tomorrow. The number seven is going to be very much in focus given today was the anniversary of Rocky passing in 2001. Hoping for a Bobby Pires style tribute from Saka.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Last 6 weeks he’s looked very tired and predictable. Arteta taking him off with 20 mins to go was a message.

Think he shouldn’t start v Newcastle.

flobaba

Sicario2 - Tier 1 the kid has literally been saying he’s exhausted for the past 2 months. Arteta’s response has been near irresponsible, along the lines of they have to be ready to play every day at this level, as if you can magic think fatigue away. We should have done a much better job with resting him in the earlier parts of the season. Hope it’s a lesson learned for next term.

goon

Agree, but only thing I'd say is he tore Burn to shreds at the Emirates.

Glad we're at least taking him off.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Reiss should start ahead of him for a game or two. Although he wasn't great in his cameo last night.

daredevil

He's playing in the CL next season. He will have to adapt to playing twice a week, which is what all the top players do.

Protecting and resting him does not help Saka to play twice a week, it literally stops him from physically adapting to the demand.

Guy is a grown ass millionaire, not a baby boo who needs mollycoddling.

Mirth

daredevil Guy is a grown ass millionaire, not a baby boo who needs mollycoddling.

There's plenty of examples out there of footballers who've been overplayed at a younger age and burn out by their late 20s. It's basically what happened with Cesc in 07/08 who carried the team till March and then hit a wall in the title run in. Obviously Saka needs to and is paid to adapt but Arsenal fans should know it comes with a risk.

Look at Man City - Pep rotates his squad through out the season precisely so that they're peaking during the final stretch. Including resting the likes of De Bryune.

daredevil

Coombs

It's not wild speculation. It's exactly how physical adaptation occurs via progressive overload through a form of periodisation.

Saka has to develop physically to partake and excel in a 50 game season. Not playing obviously doesn't help him develop that physical capacity and robustness.

Mirth

I'm sure he'd have played less if we had an alternative that was as good as him to warrant rotating like City do. Failing that, he's going to play every game when fit and available.

He is out of form and needs to be pulled. But we're in a title race and starting Nelson is a risk that Arteta understandably doesn't want to take. Especially, as Saka is just as likely to play himself back into form.

Mirth

Mirth Look at Man City - Pep rotates his squad through out the season precisely so that they're peaking during the final stretch. Including resting the likes of De Bryune.

Another example that's come to mind - courtesy of the Football Ramble - is how City have managed Haaland all season. It's hard to drop Haaland but Pep's still managed his minutes by taking him off after 60 mins numerous times even when Haaland looked sharp and was on a hattrick. The result is that a) he's in form in the final weeks of the season and b) this is the most appearances he's ever made in a single season and his injury problems from Dortmund seem to have been addressed for now.

Elite football is now a squad game more than ever, we won't go far if we make our best players play 50 game x 90 minutes every season - no matter how many millions they make.

goon

For me it's not about protecting him or giving him a breather for the sake of it. His performances look tired whether it's mental or physical. Taking him out for a game to refocus the mind even wouldn't be a bad thing.

Burnwinter

goon For me it's not about protecting him or giving him a breather for the sake of it.

Giving him a rest on merit, perhaps.

There's also the issue of his contract, hasn't been signed yet and perhaps there's some sticking point there lurking. I personally doubt it's a physical issue, think it's mental.

Coombs

I think Arteta wants him to feel exhaustion. Not just tiredness. He's playing him like a trainer making you do intervals. Maybe there's some theory that it'll make him more resilient in the long run, when he can be rotated properly without losing form and rhythm. Just wild speculation, but it feels intentional.

Qwiss

Coombs I think its more like the issue Wenger spoke about with Pires. He said he'd intend on a Sunday to rest him next week but as the weekend drew closer he'd start to feel he couldn't leave him out and by the match he'd be back in because he was just too important. And he had Henry, Bergkamp, Vieira, Ljungberg, etc

Coombs

Qwiss equally possible, if not more so.

Mirth

daredevil 'm sure he'd have played less if we had an alternative that was as good as him to warrant rotating like City do. Failing that, he's going to play every game when fit and available.

He is out of form and needs to be pulled. But we're in a title race and starting Nelson is a risk that Arteta understandably doesn't want to take. Especially, as Saka is just as likely to play himself back into form.

I agree with this - Saka has played as many games because we have no other alternative. But that's different from the initial remark that he needs to just grin and bear it because that's what happens at other top clubs.

Qwiss

Mirth combined goals and assists in the league, where we can evenly evaluate them, Salah has 26 and Saka has 25.

Gunner89

He needs a rest for a week or two but he's near world class no doubt about it.

Mirth

Salah's just scored his 29th goal in what's generally considered his worst season in a Liverpool shirt. Saka's had an excellent season but that's the level he needs to get up to before he's truly world class imo.

He can easily do it too but needs that final push to explode

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Mirth thank you.

flobaba

Mirth How often do you see Salah supporting Alexander Arnold in defence? Saka's starting position I believe is also significantly farther back when we counter. That's what I mean by different roles.

I went to squawka to check on a couple of defensive stats for both players. https://www.squawka.com/en/comparison-matrix/
Tackles made, take ons completed, take on success %, fouls won, clearances, interceptions. Saka is head and shoulders above Salah as an all round footballer. Salah is basically an end product machine in the mold of Ronaldo. He and Saka, on paper, might play in the same position, but the way the position is interpreted by the player and what is required by the team from each of them is very different.

flobaba

That's two different types of players with different roles though.

Mirth

Qwiss seems odd to discount the European tournaments tho. In theory Saka's been up against easier opposition while Salah scored against Madrid and Napoli.

It's splitting hairs but personally I don't think Saka's crossed Salah's level just yet though he's on the cusp of doing so.

I don't think they have radically different roles either - Salah's more of an inside forward but they're both the key outlet. If you can't compare those two then any player comparison is effectively meaningless.

Qwiss

Mirth seems odd to discount the European tournaments tho.

Not really, Liverpool play their first teams in Europe we don't. TBH in the European games our first team players looked to be playing at half speed. I don't think the team, including the manager were all that concerned with it.

Focussing on the league is focussing on the competition that they both played the same opposition, with the same number of games, etc Its the comparison that makes the most sense.

For me Saka and Salah are on about the same level right now, however one is still improving and one is on the cusp of decline. And Saka has had a better season. Salah is still world class but Saka i there now too.

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