I think Arteta wants him to feel exhaustion. Not just tiredness. He's playing him like a trainer making you do intervals. Maybe there's some theory that it'll make him more resilient in the long run, when he can be rotated properly without losing form and rhythm. Just wild speculation, but it feels intentional.
Coombs I think its more like the issue Wenger spoke about with Pires. He said he'd intend on a Sunday to rest him next week but as the weekend drew closer he'd start to feel he couldn't leave him out and by the match he'd be back in because he was just too important. And he had Henry, Bergkamp, Vieira, Ljungberg, etc
It's not wild speculation. It's exactly how physical adaptation occurs via progressive overload through a form of periodisation.
Saka has to develop physically to partake and excel in a 50 game season. Not playing obviously doesn't help him develop that physical capacity and robustness.
I'm sure he'd have played less if we had an alternative that was as good as him to warrant rotating like City do. Failing that, he's going to play every game when fit and available.
He is out of form and needs to be pulled. But we're in a title race and starting Nelson is a risk that Arteta understandably doesn't want to take. Especially, as Saka is just as likely to play himself back into form.
daredevil 'm sure he'd have played less if we had an alternative that was as good as him to warrant rotating like City do. Failing that, he's going to play every game when fit and available.
He is out of form and needs to be pulled. But we're in a title race and starting Nelson is a risk that Arteta understandably doesn't want to take. Especially, as Saka is just as likely to play himself back into form.
I agree with this - Saka has played as many games because we have no other alternative. But that's different from the initial remark that he needs to just grin and bear it because that's what happens at other top clubs.
He needs a rest for a week or two but he's near world class no doubt about it.
goon For me it's not about protecting him or giving him a breather for the sake of it.
Giving him a rest on merit, perhaps.
There's also the issue of his contract, hasn't been signed yet and perhaps there's some sticking point there lurking. I personally doubt it's a physical issue, think it's mental.
Salah's just scored his 29th goal in what's generally considered his worst season in a Liverpool shirt. Saka's had an excellent season but that's the level he needs to get up to before he's truly world class imo.
He can easily do it too but needs that final push to explode
Mirth thank you.
That's two different types of players with different roles though.
Qwiss seems odd to discount the European tournaments tho. In theory Saka's been up against easier opposition while Salah scored against Madrid and Napoli.
It's splitting hairs but personally I don't think Saka's crossed Salah's level just yet though he's on the cusp of doing so.
I don't think they have radically different roles either - Salah's more of an inside forward but they're both the key outlet. If you can't compare those two then any player comparison is effectively meaningless.
Mirth Look at Man City - Pep rotates his squad through out the season precisely so that they're peaking during the final stretch. Including resting the likes of De Bryune.
Another example that's come to mind - courtesy of the Football Ramble - is how City have managed Haaland all season. It's hard to drop Haaland but Pep's still managed his minutes by taking him off after 60 mins numerous times even when Haaland looked sharp and was on a hattrick. The result is that a) he's in form in the final weeks of the season and b) this is the most appearances he's ever made in a single season and his injury problems from Dortmund seem to have been addressed for now.
Elite football is now a squad game more than ever, we won't go far if we make our best players play 50 game x 90 minutes every season - no matter how many millions they make.
Mirth How often do you see Salah supporting Alexander Arnold in defence? Saka's starting position I believe is also significantly farther back when we counter. That's what I mean by different roles.
I went to squawka to check on a couple of defensive stats for both players. https://www.squawka.com/en/comparison-matrix/
Tackles made, take ons completed, take on success %, fouls won, clearances, interceptions. Saka is head and shoulders above Salah as an all round footballer. Salah is basically an end product machine in the mold of Ronaldo. He and Saka, on paper, might play in the same position, but the way the position is interpreted by the player and what is required by the team from each of them is very different.
Yes, but the reason why City can rest Haaland like that is because Alvarez is good enough to be a title winning striker himself. It's a luxury that no other club in football has (having second string players who are almost, if not as good as the first string). It's why Saka and Salah and other players like them have to learn how to play so much football because normal clubs don't have great alternatives so the talismen have to learn to endure.
Mahrez on his day is every bit as good as both if not better than Saka at least, and he's been used very sparingly this season. City have that luxury, and if we did, then I'm sure Saka would be managed with fewer minutes but we need to find a player as good as Saka to enable that. Look at how Martinelli is being managed since Trossard's arrival.
That's why I think we need to approach Nelson's replacement the same way we did Trossard, which is sign a player who can sit Saka on the bench. If we approach it that way, then we'll benefit but if we view it through the lens of signing an understudy, then we won't sign someone who is good enough to give the manager the confidence to rest Saka more frequently.
If Saka got to that level going forward I guarantee he's defensive output would drop. He wouldn't need to.
Salah is one of the best in the PL era in that position. It's not remotely an insult to say Saka isn't on that level yet. Salah was a nobody at 21. But if Saka wants to be the best, he needs to become a killer in the box and other dangerous situations in the same way.
flobaba Goon is right, those stats are being analysed in reverse. Salah has a freer role because he's won that right from his manager because he's an end product monster. It's the same with even the likes of Vinicius Jr (or Messi or Ronaldo) who has worse defensive stats than Saka but you wouldn't say they're worse footballers overall.
Getting that free role is earned and Saka isn't there yet despite Arteta clearly wanting him to be our main attacking outlet.
daredevil Yes, but the reason why City can rest Haaland like that is because Alvarez is good enough to be a title winning striker himself. It's a luxury that no other club in football has (having second string players who are almost, if not as good as the first string). It's why Saka and Salah and other players like them have to learn how to play so much football because normal clubs don't have great alternatives so the talismen have to learn to endure.
It's not just City: https://madriduniversal.com/benzema-not-injured-after-being-left-out-of-the-squad-for-real-sociedad-clash-report/
Salah and Liverpool are a good example of why it's not good to run your players into the ground because they'll hit a wall at some point. Mane looks broken and Salah clearly went down a level at the start of the season before slowly recovering. Liverpool have learned from this and now they have more attackers than ever before - Darwin, Jota, Diaz, Salah, Gakpo and Firmino (who may leave) is a lot more depth than they had a few seasons ago. We should learn the same.
FWIW when we did have the option to rotate Saka with Trossard, we didn't.
To be fair it's not mathematically possible for RM to catch Barca and they're still in the CL, so it's a no-brainer.
But yeah, we should've given more minutes to Nelson and ESR this season.
Mirth seems odd to discount the European tournaments tho.
Not really, Liverpool play their first teams in Europe we don't. TBH in the European games our first team players looked to be playing at half speed. I don't think the team, including the manager were all that concerned with it.
Focussing on the league is focussing on the competition that they both played the same opposition, with the same number of games, etc Its the comparison that makes the most sense.
For me Saka and Salah are on about the same level right now, however one is still improving and one is on the cusp of decline. And Saka has had a better season. Salah is still world class but Saka i there now too.
