Lay it all (your name/rep) out there -- we winning the PL this year? : Page 2 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Lay it all (your name/rep) out there -- we winning the PL this year?

Big Willie

Sicario2 Question to those negative guys, did you feel this way after the Everton game or have the two cup exists influenced you?

Can't speak for others but why wouldn't those two cup defeats influence their feelings. One is a loss to the team we are up against for the League, the other in the FA Cup to lower league opposition.

Weren't you banging on about how the League Cup final is crucual to winning the league and that beating City in it would be a psychological blow to them? Now that we've lost it you don't think it is anymore?

The FA Cup loss is even worse, after coming from a couple weeks back, and losing to a team in the Championship.

I reckon we'll win it, it'll be close but we should have enough to get over the line. But can you blame people who are not confident?

Sicario2

Big Willie that was before city dropped 4 points and we won all our games post wolves.

Carabo cup no one gives a shit about in the grand scheme of things and Fa cup we clearly prioritised the other other main competitions. You saw the players in training yesterday with that pen thing - did they look down in the dumps?

These two cup defeats will have no bearing on us winning the title. Getting knocked out of the Fa cup will actually help us as we have less games.

RocktheCasbah

Big Willie The FA Cup loss is even worse, after coming from a couple weeks back, and losing to a team in the Championship.

I've refrained from commenting post Southampton as I didn't see the game, but I don't think us losing to Southampton with a heavily rotated side has any bearing at all on the first team's prospects of winning the league title. There are so many people on this forum who have criticised Arteta's unwillingness to rotate his squad over an extended period of time, and it is one of the criticisms that even I would say is a fair one. But he did it on Saturday, he did what most of you here would have wanted him to do and clearly prioritised Sporting Lisbon - and what's the reaction here when it goes wrong?

Like I said, I didn't see the game, I'm sure I would have been pissed off if I had, but surely we can all agree that the important game this week is the one tonight?

invisibleman18

Sicario2 Question to those negative guys, did you feel this way after the Everton game or have the two cup exists influenced you?

Fair question. I've always hoped but don't know if I've ever 100% believed we would do it, but my confidence in the team finding a way to get over the line has definitely evaporated after the 2 cups. You were saying how crucial the league cup final was in terms of the league weren't you? I just want to get to the Bournemouth game now and hopefully get back on track. Obviously we're in an amazing position and should do it from here but we have a history of repeatedly falling short.

SimplyThePest

Sicario2 had my doubts since the mincy effort away vs. Liverpool but especially since the two draws vs. Liverpool and Forest and bedwetting vs. Man Utd in January.

Sicario2

SimplyThePest lol we are not going to win every game. How did you feel when Ciry kept dropping points in Jan or v Forest at home or West Ham away? Naturally we will remember our dropped points more than theirs as we feel it more but it’s nonsense to think they are flawless.

I think we can beat City at City as well.

SimplyThePest

Sicario2 I felt that as apparently the best team in the league, we'd blown a good opportunity to build a bigger lead given City's poor form at the time.

invisibleman18

RocktheCasbah surely we can all agree that the important game this week is the one tonight?

It's the one coming up on Saturday for me tbh.

est

RocktheCasbah but I don't think us losing to Southampton with a heavily rotated side has any bearing at all on the first team's prospects of winning the league title

A lot of the players that played against Southampton are going to play in the PL in the run-in because of our injury problems.

It's not just about the loss. Freak results can happen, especially in the cup competitions. It's more about how uninspired we've looked recently. We look physically and mentally shot. We don't even have the set-pieces or good defending left. Even the first choice players who played against Southampton looked so bad.

I really hope we can put together an inspiring performance against Sporting, that will spark some confidence and positivity going into the League games. It's very difficult to see from where it should come though.

QuincyAbeyie

RocktheCasbah he did what most of you here would have wanted him to do and clearly prioritised Sporting Lisbon - and what's the reaction here when it goes wrong?

I don't think wanting to rotate means that no matter how the rotated team performs there should be no criticism. It's not like we have to accept that we'll lose the second a team is rotated. We just have to accept that the average performance of a rotated team is worse than the average performance of a full team.

Tam

RocktheCasbah I've refrained from commenting post Southampton as I didn't see the game, but I don't think us losing to Southampton with a heavily rotated side has any bearing at all on the first team's prospects of winning the league title. There are so many people on this forum who have criticised Arteta's unwillingness to rotate his squad over an extended period of time, and it is one of the criticisms that even I would say is a fair one. But he did it on Saturday, he did what most of you here would have wanted him to do and clearly prioritised Sporting Lisbon - and what's the reaction here when it goes wrong?

That only holds true for me if you're expectation is that it is acceptable for a mid-table Championship team to beat us.

It wasn't a team of kids we put out. It was Arteta's own players, playing his own game, and we came up second best against a team from a league below. The fault isn't on the rotation.

Big Willie

RocktheCasbah I didn't see the game, but I don't think us losing to Southampton with a heavily rotated side has any bearing at all on the first team's prospects of winning the league title. There are so many people on this forum who have criticised Arteta's unwillingness to rotate his squad over an extended period of time, and it is one of the criticisms that even I would say is a fair one. But he did it on Saturday, he did what most of you here would have wanted him to do and clearly prioritised Sporting Lisbon - and what's the reaction here when it goes wrong?

Not sure if you're speaking in general or directly to me but as you replied to me what I will say is this.

Prioritising the CL vs the FA Cup is all well and great. Had we been playing against a midtable to top half side I fully understand. Had we even been playing with any PL team also maybe I'd understand. But playing a Championship team and losing to them in an FA Cup quarter final is not on unless the level of rotation is that of Wenger Carling Cup type side, which at that stage of the competition would be too much, and thankfully is not what Arteta did.

He may have rotated but it was still a strong side that would easily end the season in midtable in the PL had they been the starters for another club. If you believe looking at that starting lineup that Sputhampton are a better side and would win that tie on paper than I'd have to disagree. However if we look at their lineup compared to our and feel we have the stronger side, then losing isn't because of rotation and the strength of the side, at least not directly. It's possible it is indirectly linked to the lack of minutes and rotation given to the likes of Norgaard, MLS, White etc who have come into the team having hardly played any minutes all season.

That said, my point was in regard to whether this loss coupled with the loss against City in thr LC final have shalen people's confidence that we can win yhe league and even though I believe we will win the title, I do not see why it's unreasonable for those who don't to feel that way.

RocktheCasbah

invisibleman18 well, okay, but it definitely wasn't the one on Saturday was it? 🙂

RocktheCasbah

est did you watch the home game against Bayer Leverkusen?

Maybe you and I have different understandings of the current injury situation, but I was under the impression we had some players coming back. Gabriel Jesus, for example, is unlikely to be starting too many games up front over the next 6 weeks - neither is Christian Norgaard likely to getting off the bench very often.

Sicario2

est it’s not as if we beat a good Everton side a few weeks ago and produced a very good performance v Leverukson in the second leg?

We are 9 points clear and topped the CL group stages for a reason. Yet ppl want to dismiss it because of two cups no one gave a shit about at the beginning of the season.

Don’t let media narrative twist your minds. Stay strong.

est

RocktheCasbah Maybe you and I have different understandings of the current injury situation, but I was under the impression we had some players coming back.

Yeah, maybe. For me there seems to be quite a lot of different information about a few of our player's injury situations. My past experience with our injury history leads me to lean on the more pessimistic side of those reports.

Regarding the team against Southampton, we had Kepa, White, Mosquera, Gabriel, MLS, Norgaard, Dowman, Odegaard, Havertz, Martinelli and Jesus starting with Saliba, Madueke, Gyökeres, Zubimendi and Calafiori coming off the bench. Out of those 16 players I'd say only Kepa, Norgaard and Dowman(edit: and Jesus! God willing!) probably won't feature heavily either as starters or substitutes for the rest of the season. Maybe you could add MLS there, but with Hincapie out for god knows how long and Calafiori being made out of glass, I'd say there's a good chance he will get a lot of game-time from now on. So whereas it was a rotated squad(as much as our injury situation allowed), it wasn't quite like actually playing a B-team.

So it really depends on whether the reports about Rice, Gabriel and Zubimendi playing through injuries are true. The way their form has been recently I'm more inclined to believe those rumors. And then it also comes down to whether White, Calafiori, Havertz, Saka and Odegaard/Eze can stay/get fit, because we probably aren't winning anything without most of those guys playing. Lots of question marks in the air, hopefully it somehow all works out for us, but I wouldn't be shocked if it went like it has done in recent history.

RocktheCasbah did you watch the home game against Bayer Leverkusen?

I did. We took care of business against an inferior team to ours. I also watched the away leg where we were quite poor.

We've generally been quite good in the CL, so that's not what I'm worried about really. Of course it will just take one poor performance to get knocked out, but I'm not really expecting us to win it anyway. Of course we should take it seriously since we have a great draw, but the League is where our most realistic chance of winning something major lies this season. And we haven't really been on fire in the League recently, performance-wise. Yes, we did beat Everton, but it was hardly a convincing performance(not that it always needs to be one). If the margins are so slim, it doesn't take much to turn a 2-0 win against Everton to a 0-0 or 0-1. Of course I'd happily take us grinding out last minute 1-0 victories from now on until the end of the season, but I'd rather we just played more to our full ability like we did earlier in the season.

Sicario2 Don’t let media narrative twist your minds. Stay strong.

I generally avoid most of the media coverage and narratives they try to push. I form my opinions based on what I see and of course what gets posted on here. But cheers for the positivity! I know I can be a bit of a downer when it comes to a lot of this.

RowJimmy

est Regarding the team against Southampton, we had Kepa, White, Mosquera, Gabriel, MLS, Norgaard, Dowman, Odegaard, Havertz, Martinelli and Jesus starting with Saliba, Madueke, Gyökeres, Zubimendi and Calafiori coming off the bench. Out of those 16 players I'd say only Kepa, Norgaard and Dowman(edit: and Jesus! God willing!) probably won't feature heavily either as starters or substitutes for the rest of the season.

Do this the other way around - out of the players who started against Southampton, who is likely to start in most remaining games? Gabriel and Odegaard will start when fit. Havertz and Martinelli probably half the time apiece but no more. Dowman, who knows. That's it. The others are emergency starters only for the rest of the year.

Qwiss

HomeSteak because April is when you have the harder cup games and more fixture congestion of important matches. I don't think that stat holds up if you just look at just the league games.

QuincyAbeyie yeah I was in favour of rotation but at the same time I do think our rotated team should be beating a Championship side, even a decent one. I think its more of a squad building issue than a selection one though. That said the FA cup exit was disappointing but I don't think these things have that much weight in whether we win the league or not.

RocktheCasbah

QuincyAbeyie I think the criticism is fine. Like I said, I didn't see the game, so even I wouldn't be so bold as to come in here and tell you what to think about it.

However, I also think the line up that @est kindly laid out for us above is unlikely to be deployed for this football club ever again, never mind the next 6 weeks and so I don't think anyone should be reading too much into it as regards our Premier League chances. That's all I'm saying really.

Like it or not, Arsenal are not where they are by accident - we're top of the table because we've got both the best home and away record in the Premier League with over 80% of the season done. There is, of course, plenty of time for it all to go wrong, but I can't keep reading about how crap we are when we're 4 wins away from something which would make us all very, very happy indeed.

Gurgen

We came out second best in the score but the performance wasn't as bad as people say it was. Bad finishing and stupid errors at the back cost us, these things happen. If we play this game 100 times we probably win it 95 times.

MistaT

@Coombs — seen your vote!

Thought of you as I started this thread

Coombs

MistaT I really had no hesitation in voting. Faith is gone.

awooga83

Big Willie I also thought the attitude is some of the players wasn't good enough and that's not really on even if it's not your priority. It felt like they thought it would be relatively easy and the weren't 100% on it. Gabriel made some terrible misjudgements and martinelli, havertz and Ode were playing and found it difficult to impact the game consistently and they are likely to be involved.

RocktheCasbah

Big Willie no I don't think Southampton should have been able to beat the Arsenal side Arteta put out, but hey, shit happens. It also points to the players - as both you and awooga have pointed out - not being on it on the night. Arteta can take the blame for that, but really it's at least equally on the players.

I've already had to repeat the point I made initially regarding the league, I'm not doing it again but I guess it's pretty clear we disagree on that anyway.

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