I appreciate both as men, but I maintain neither Henry nor Cesc has what it takes to lead a dressing room at the top level.

Henry has a lifetime of leading by example and despising the weaknesses of others. I've never seen any player drag his teammates so often. But leadership of a group of mixed talents requires consistency and optimism as well as brilliance.

Cesc simply isn't smart, savvy or tough enough for the very top level.

Anyway, I'm still in the spot I was years ago when Cesc whinged his way over to Barcelona: I'll never hate him as much for that as I despised Van Persie. As for Henry, he is a charming genius who has done right by Arsenal.

    Burnwinter I disagree on Cesc, I think he has all the makings of a top manager, and I actually think he’ll manage Arsenal one day. Great Spanish midfielders educated at La Masia know football, and when you hear him talk about coaching it’s clear he has the mentality and his own ideas. And I think he really wants to come here and win a title with Arsenal.

    And for the record, he has plenty of toughness — he carried the club for years as a very young man, when Wenger was going full youth and employing a bunch of jokers as fitness coaches and physios.

        CPM And for the record, he has plenty of toughness — he carried the club for years as a very young man

        I hear you. I think this can all be true.

        It's an interpolation, but I see Cesc as a "type A" approval-seeking personality. I reason that's why his quasi-paternal relationship with Wenger caused him such issues, as did the lack of sustained validation he received at Barcelona.

        I have no particular doubts about his football knowledge, though he doesn't come across as hugely bright in interviews or stories about his private life. But he's highly and diversely experienced in the sport and made lots of great individual decisions on the pitch.

        My prediction though: he'll have real trouble if he ends up managing a club of which the dressing room features galactico level players. This is a guy who won't deal well with any unruly stars undermining him, or even with the need to discipline players more generally.

        Anyway, that's obviously just bullshit theorising but that's what I see in him.

            RowJimmy Sure, Titi didn't make it as a manager. But as a studio analyst he is much, much more incisive than almost anyone else I see.

            Agreed. Except perhaps when it comes to standards he struggles with context. Like criticising Odegaard not creating chances despite the injuries when "it's the same team". It's not the same team Titi.

            That run by Richy that led to Ode's assist - we haven't had that in a while. Saka does it all the time, ditto Gabimart.

              Burnwinter you underestimate Cesc. For a 17 year old to come in from a foreign country and replace an Arsenal legend (Vieria) takes some doing.

              Cesc was running rings around galacticos in the bernabu at 18. He also scored decisive penalties for Spain and was our youngest ever captain at 21. That doesn’t happen for no reason.

              He def has something about him and if you watch him on tv as a pundit not many come close. Man is articulating the game in his second language putting some native pundits to shame.

              He is a leader and his career to date shows you everything you need to know and as per our bet he will go to the top as a manager. Wouldn’t be surprised if he is our manager post Arteta.

                Burnwinter Cesc is charismatic and very likeable so he will win hearts and minds of his players. And his career and football knowledge is second to none so he will get instant buy in.

                    Mirth he was a kid playing in a team of underachieves and punks like Eboue and Denislon. Cesc in our current team wouldn’t fade second half of any seasons.

                        Sicario2 - Tier 1 if you read the link, it also includes his time at Barcelona and Chelsea where he’d faded away in the 2nd half of the season

                          LOL. Arsenal fans 🙂
                          Saka is better than any player at PSG.
                          What we need is one more top player like Ousmane or Kvara. We don’t need all 4 of these guys.

                            Claudius That sounds like exactly what Jazz was saying..? Unless you're just referring to Arsenal fans somewhere else.

                              RowJimmy Don't get me wrong, Henry definitely knows his shit. I just don't think he's got the consistent, optimistic personality that draws others into battle to fight for him. He's brilliant, moody and critical, more the wizard or prophet rather than the king.

                                Sicario2 - Tier 1 I'm pretty sure Cesc will falter and crack up if he ever gets his chance managing at a Champions League club and kicks on (I'm not sure that he will). It's happened to plenty of strong personalities. But then we've got that handy bet to settle this disagreement already ...

                                  Should have taken him , we were linked with him a lot in previous windows