jones I don't have a problem with either of those two deals. Tomi is injury prone, we are going to lose Zinchenko & Tierney and possibly Kiwior this summer so getting Calafiori is fine, he also acts as backup for CBs. Likewise for Merino, we are going to lose Partey and Jorginho this window. Sometimes you need to bring in the replacements a window or two before and that for me is being proactive.

The main problem for me was we went for Sesko and Williams, neither happened and we knew early it would be very difficult. But worryingly seemed like we had not backup or alterative lined up. This summer, if key targets aren't signed by mid July we simply have to move on to the next ones. Chasing players all summer to be rejected is what we used to do under Wenger, can not happen again.

      Claudius I understand your points, but they are obstacles to be addressed, not reasons for taking no action. You've also picked three fairly poor buys to illustrate your point, which is in no way representative of the wider market of actual moves, or even potential moves that we might have made. There will have been dozens of potential options open to us across a wide range of value, alongside plenty where we could have forced the issue if we tried.

      If the market is constrained and your preferred options aren't available, that's a sign you need to adapt your approach, tactics, or principles to what is available, rather than turning your nose up at what's on offer and middling through.

      We've been fortunate to be blessed with Saka, and now Nwaneri coming through, as there is currently very little positive evidence (Odegaard aside) that Arteta is capable of making worthy attacking additions to the team.

      Don Pacifico because I still believe there are plans in place to fix our forward line. If I didn't think that, then I'd question our squad building.

      Our attack was prolific last season. Despite this, we all knew there were still weaknesses, as did Arteta hence why we were looking at forwards in the summer. The fact we didn't sign any isn't a flaw of squad building.

      I've still got plans to fit into those 32 inch waist jeans in my wardrobe. Until I actually take some action the plans are all a bit meaningless, and the fact I've had plenty opportunity in recent times suggests the issue lies with me rather than the jeans.

            JazzG Agreed, but I think that's possibly part of Jones' point there. That we could identify the issues in the deeper positions and make attempts to rectify it, but not do it further up the pitch, is just baffling. I refuse to believe it's due to the lack of options or prices of those available.

                Tam Maybe but I think we got Havertz done pretty quick when we wanted him a couple years back, likewise moved quickly on Trossard when we lost out on Mudryk. We have neglected the attacking positions last summer, clear we needed at minimum one if not two players and ended up with zero. I honestly think if we had signed a top class wide player that alone would have made a massive difference, could have rotated our front players and maybe they wouldn't have got injured.

                    JazzG Even ignoring that he was supposed to be a CM the fact we got Havertz done pretty quick is not the argument you seem to think it is lol

                    It's actually mental, Chelsea initially refused to sell him we had to go in with several bids. He was a failure there for three years, had just two years left on his deal, they had just finished in 12th yet we paid them more than they paid Leverkusen initially ffs.

                      JazzG again that would be an argument for me if it happened once or twice.

                      Also I don't get the feeling we go after attackers with the same urgency we do other positions. Raya we tried for years until we got him, Havertz (as CM) I mentioned already and Calafiori we had to deal with Bologna the player and Basel and still got him in.

                      I don't rate Arteta much but his ability to sell dreams to players is up there with the best, I'm sure if he really wanted to he could've persuaded Sesko to join last summer already.

                          Tam Agree with this. We dropped proverbial bombs on Declan Rice and Kai Havertz in terms of transfer fees and wages; two players that, while good, haven't proven to be worth what we paid for them, in my opinion.

                          The 75-odd million and 280k/week we're paying the latter would have landed us a top attacker. It probably still would now.

                          Why we can't seem to get it right is anyone's guess. My hot take is that Arteta has a blind spot with regards to attackers and attacking football.

                              Considering the other club interested in him was Real Madrid I am not sure I accept this idea that he was not in demand or would not have gone for good money. For Chelsea to sell us was going to require a premium, I think we overpaid by £10m-£15m but I think he has done fine for us. When he has played in his best position he has been good, our wide players imo have been more of a let down with the exception of Saka.

                                JazzG Considering the other club interested in him was Real Madrid I am not sure I accept this idea that he was not in demand or would not have gone for good money.

                                If this is the case, do you think Havertz didn't want to join Real Madrid so he came here instead, or do you think it means that Real Madrid weren't interested at that price? I know what I'm thinking.

                                    They weren't interested at £65m, I think they were up to around £45m-£50m from what I remember. Like I said we overpaid but as a striker his record is good. I also think we overpaid for Rice but when you buy within the PL there is a premium, even more so when it is another London club.

                                    JazzG likewise moved quickly on Trossard when we lost out on Mudryk. We have neglected the attacking positions last summer,

                                    The neglect stretches further back. Mudryk and Trossard were pursued because by the beginning on January we were down to Martinelli, Nketiah and Saka, with support from Vieira and a recovering Smith-Rowe who had just come back from injury. Jesus and Nelson were both injured for a spell, with Smith-Rowe recovering, but even if they had all been fit does that strike anyone as being a fit-for-purpose (™Anzac) frontline? The only one of them Arteta had brought in for the front three positions was Jesus. Vieira could spell there but he is and was clearly intentioned to be a central player (cue the lessons on Arteta's views on traits rather than positions...).

                                      SimplyThePest In fairness, if we'd won the title last year there would be far fewer concerns about the cost of Rice and Havertz. I reckon there would still be questions on Havertz but Rice would be considered acceptable.

                                        JazzG It's not like Madrid don't get linked with or sign duds as well. Most fans and even the clueless British media said this was a horrible transfer right from the start, we made it halfway work through sheer insistence by Arteta to rearrange the team to find a spot for him but it was an awful transfer and considering his wages it would've been even at half the transfer fee.

                                          QuincyAbeyie I think Havertz has a good agent and Real weren't all that interested at all.

                                            awooga83 sure. But I don't think anyone said we didn't need reinforcements up front. I certainly don't think Arteta believed that. It's only an issue for me if the club don't believe we need to make a change.

                                            QuincyAbeyie Can there only be flaws with the squad building if we weren't looking? If we look for players every season, then don't manage to sign those we're looking at, and then don't sign adequate alternatives, I see that as a flaw with the squad building.

                                            But we were looking last summer, weren't we? If we failed to sign them or anyone, then that's on our recruitment team.

                                            Tam I've still got plans to fit into those 32 inch waist jeans in my wardrobe. Until I actually take some action the plans are all a bit meaningless, and the fact I've had plenty opportunity in recent times suggests the issue lies with me rather than the jeans.

                                            Squad building, particularly with the level of renovation we've had doesn't happen quickly. Particularly when you have finite resources. Perhaps we could still have signed someone in the summer but we made a decision to hold fire in the hope that an attack that have proved pretty competent the previous season could continue its hot streak. That was a mistake with hindsight but I feel the squad-building the club have done to date should afford them a bit more patience.

                                            If we were to go another summer without appropriate signings then we've got a problem.

                                            jones I don't rate Arteta much but his ability to sell dreams to players is up there with the best, I'm sure if he really wanted to he could've persuaded Sesko to join last summer already.

                                            Seems like we were pretty quick to line up Jesus.

                                            You may be being sarcastic but the suggestion that Arteta would intentionally be half-arsed about signing a forward that we're about to go in again for in a third consecutive window is some next level conspiracy bullshit.

                                                      Don Pacifico But we were looking last summer, weren't we?

                                                      That's literally what I'm saying. That if we're looking and don't sign anyone, I see that as a flaw in our squad building. I don't see squad building as just the part where we write down the players we want on a piece of paper.

                                                          Don Pacifico yes Jesus came quickly, as I said him and Trossard two forwards in over five years. Is that really your argument?

                                                          not sarcastic, I've no idea why Arteta doesn't push for a forward the way he does for defenders, don't think it's unrealistic expectations as the guys we're linked to aren't out of our league.

                                                          Haven't posted here as much in a while but you can't tell me people weren't crying out for a forward for ages. What's your explanation we failed to get one in nine out of eleven windows?

                                                              jones your suggestion was that Arteta isn't interested in signing forwards. That's demonstrably not the case even if we've prioritised other areas.