naz exactly. Havertz and Martinelli are good but we need a level above to be the main guys with them rotating in and coming off the bench. Trossards been good but he's not a guy you keep into his 30s. Jesus is just a disaster.

    Frustrating match but it’s hard to go there and win especially in today’s conditions.

    On to the next. Worrying that Liverpool can go 9 clear again

      Seriously pissed off about this match. We did enough to win barring the fact that Jesus, Trossard, Martinelli and Havertz all aren't good enough. And even despite that Saka so nearly won it for us.

      It also feels like every match I watch we're getting f**ked over on delays to the restart, niggles and professional fouls, throw-ins and minor decisions throughout.

      Burnwinter stop crying and using ref’s as a fucking excuse for us not being up for it this season. Time to wake up and smell the coffee. This is football these things happen. Get over it. Winners or championship teams don’t go on and on about things that went against them. Man up.

          I don't think we did enough to win. We can complain about the marginal offside, but we were even lucky for our equaliser. Could have easily lost.

          Leno was very comfortable.

          Control ball really stifle our attack. Just compare that to Liverpool who pepper opponents week in week out. We need to release some control

            Sicario2 - Tier 1 Winners or championship teams don’t go on and on about things that went against them.

            The most winning team in history of football refused to attend the Ballon d'Or because their player didn't win it and complained in the media about how disrespected they felt.

              Sicario2 - Tier 1 stop crying and using ref’s as a fucking excuse for us not being up for it this season. Time to wake up and smell the coffee. This is football these things happen. Get over it. Winners or championship teams don’t go on and on about things that went against them. Man up.

              "Don't express discontent about events that empirically happened and contributed to Arsenal being 6 points behind league leaders Liverpool having played a game more … instead engage in relentless, histrionic gnashing and wailing and harp on my preferred fixations about how terrible you, me, Arsenal and everyone currently connected to Arsenal are, because that is the only path to victory. Man up."

              Fucking pipe down eh?

                  Unlike some I haven't been bottling, flouncing and rage-quitting the whole season for a couple of months, but hey, "man up" … 🙄

                  Burnwinter yeah, things can be bad. They can even feel like confirmation of previously unspoken fears. But seeing the team, the manager et al being completely written off like the last two seasons didn't happen is disappointing.

                  And that doesn't mean there aren't problems. Clearly there are. But everything and everyone aren't suddenly shit.

                      Don Pacifico I think part of that comes from where we are with this side, 5 years in it's supposed to be the business part of the plan delivering the big outcomes. To be having a season where we are looking quite far away from that and potentially being out of the race in December is quite a big regression and inevitably you question where things are.

                      Then to see City stumble and we aren't the team in position to take advantage and In fact there are another 2 ahead of you is a blow to the confidence in the side. For as much as we have had luck this season, and we have, the opposite is probably true for the last couple keeping are most influential players fit having most performing to near their peak but we couldn't deliver the title when they luck was with us.

                      So if we can't do it in those circumstances I can't help feel are we ever going to be able to with things as they are and if not what do we need to do to change that.

                          Clrnc reading this morning Saliba interviewed and he said "we need to be much better in defence". I hope thats not Artetas message because what we need is to be better in attack from open play. We created so little yesterday.

                          It drives me mad that Odegaard came back and for 2 games we played incredible football against Forrest and West Ham with loads of slick passing and intricate play around the opposition third but then dropped that to start lumping crosses in at a virtually empty box again.

                              awooga83 I don't fundamentally disagree with any of that. All I'm arguing is let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

                              And I get people are frustrated; for what it's worth I'm also frustrated, I just don't think everything is shit.

                                I watched the game while busy with some other things. Why did Arteta sub Odegaard off?

                                Gabriel Jesus is such a depressing player. Every time he comes on to stink up the place. Bringing him on when we need a goal is like giving the opposition an extra player and going a player down ourselves.

                                At the end of the day, what really cost us was Kiwior, who is our budget defensive signing, who gave up a goal in Fulham's one and only attack. He cost us in an almost an identical manner to Salah's equaliser at the Emirates. The way we compress up the pitch and play in the opponents half, we allow 1-1 situations at the back and defenders who aren't top drawer will get exposed.

                                That's why we spend money on defenders and need to strengthen again given that Kiwior (as a CB), Tierney, Zinchenko, Calafiori, Tomiyasu are all unreliable or not good enough. The 3-2 base is the platform that allows the 5 in front to attack, hence why it's prioritised. That doesn't mean we shouldn't spend on the attack, we absolutely must, but the reason why one is highly prioritised is obvious.

                                We do need to strengthen the attack, and if I had to choose, I would probably go with a creative player. We aren't creating enough chances in open play.

                                Qwiss i think you are severely underplaying the role of the opponent in these games. I thought that ws the best United team I have seen in years, and Fulham were similarly organised. It reminds me a lot of the Bayern games, and also of several Manchester City games I have watched this season. Lesser teams have realised that the best approach to managing Arsenal/City is to remain compact and organised.

                                So we need to vary more. The corners help a lot because we have a clear advantage. But I think we need to be better at giving up the ball, absorbing pressure and breaking to catch teams when they are disorganized - and score in the same way we are conceding goals. You'll see that most of our conceded goals happen when we are disorganized as teams hit us on the break.

                                    Claudius So we need to vary more. The corners help a lot because we have a clear advantage. But I think we need to be better at giving up the ball, absorbing pressure and breaking to catch teams when they are disorganized - and score in the same way we are conceding goals. You'll see that most of our conceded goals happen when we are disorganized as teams hit us on the break.

                                    Yeah, this does resonate with me. Whilst we could definitely benefit from improving personnel in certain areas of the pitch, the fact that we so rarely see the counter-attacking threat we relied on in 22/23 is frustrating (particularly given it feels a very deliberate choice).

                                      Claudius I thought that ws the best United team I have seen in years

                                      That United team since Amorim has come in has been poor. They were rubbish again this week. He seems to have the right ideas but Uniteds squad has nowhere near enough quality and we just wore them down. In the second half they were ragged.

                                      Claudius and Fulham were similarly organised.

                                      And Forrest aren't a well organised team? Its easier to defend crosses with organisation than the sort of football we played against Forrest. Fulhams defenders can head balls away and shove Havertz over all day and we played into that. Bassey is as error prone as they come and we didn't do nearly enough to put him under pressure.

                                      Claudius So we need to vary more.

                                      That's the point. We have lost the variety. Everything comes down the wings, or if Martinelli is benched just one wing. We need more through the middle and more interplay rather than crosses. That doesn't mean no crosses but it means crossing can't be 90% of what we are doing.

                                              Qwiss We need more through the middle and more interplay rather than crosses.

                                              One of the things that's puzzling me is this doesn't seem to be a default piece of our armoury. We can do it but in yesterday's match (as an example), we only seemed to prioritise it in the 2nd half (maybe even after we scored?). So maybe there's a confidence issue there or maybe it is a tactical choice.