🏆 Porto vs Arsenal, Estadio do Dragão Wednesday 21 February, 20:00 GMT: Page 14 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

🏆 Porto vs Arsenal, Estadio do Dragão Wednesday 21 February, 20:00 GMT

QuincyAbeyie

Burnwinter You don't learn useful lessons from every failure. No one thinks we learnt, or thought we'd learn much from the 2006 final.

However, getting through despite a 1–0 away first leg pretty much defines the Champions League experience. The fitful performance is disappointing but ya know, let's see what happens at the Emirates.

I'm solely replying to the "even if we don't" part. I don't we we'd learn anything new we haven't learned in pretty much every knockout match we've played under Arteta since the FA Cup win in his first half season.

Qwiss

QuincyAbeyie we made the same mistakes we did in the Europa league last season so I'm not sure we've learnt much either.

Big Willie

QuincyAbeyie I'm solely replying to the "even if we don't" part.

Probably a typo which meant to say "even if we do", it would still be a lesson for us.

Burnwinter

QuincyAbeyie I'm solely replying to the "even if we don't" part.

Ah well, please reply to whole sentences. This practice of replying to individual clauses creates the conditions for labyrinthine pettifoggery.

QuincyAbeyie

Burnwinter I don't disagree that this can be a good experience if we go through, I'm just not into the whole "if we go out then at least we learned something" thing. 🙂

Big Willie

Burnwinter labyrinthine pettifoggery

😂

Can't lie, have to google a some of the shit you type to make sure you aren't fucking with us and making up words.

Gazza M

Burnwinter I agree with this. I hoped we'd show some more street smarts, but for all its talent we have a predominantly green squad at this level. not surprised it was a bit of a shakedown, just mildly disappointed. the much vaunted invincible generation suffered more than one similar mugging in the CL. if we batter them at home this match will be forgotten

Qwiss

Panda

Qwiss Yeah it was a joke tbh. Hope they don't get away with it again at the Emirates.

JazzG

Qwiss Porto made it a very dirty game. We didn't play that well but Porto also went out of their way to break things up as often as possible.

I think Rice getting a booking so early didn't help, he knew they were diving around and could sense he was walking on egg shells avoiding a second yellow. We let Porto make the game dirty and ended up playing the game on their terms. I think this was a game where we missed someone like Zinchenko or Jorginho, someone who could have taken control of the game and made sure we played on our terms. Obviously we went into the game with a lot of injuries as well so didn't have as many options available.

Overall a poor performance but they got lucky with a goal so late on. Would have taken the 0-0 and been happy with that but a jammy goal for them right at the end. Our keeper also should be doing a lot better there.

Pepe LeFrits

Panda need the Emirates crowd to put pressure on the ref so that he can't allow that sort of shit again

Burnwinter

Big Willie Pettifoggery? 'Tis the common word down our way

daredevil

QuincyAbeyie

Playing to avoid defeat away from home in Europe in a knockout game is a good approach. The game should have been a tie, but Raya's short stature in end meant he was lobbed by a side footer. Regardless, I think we would struggle against their tactics both home and away, but I would give us the edge to score decisively at home. Now that we're a goal down, we need to score 2 more goals which makes it much more difficult. Either way, as long we turn up at home we should go through, but recent history is pitted against us.

QuincyAbeyie

daredevil Playing to avoid defeat away from home in Europe in a knockout game is a good approach.

What I disagree about with this philosophy is that it disregards the opposition - it's a one size fits all approach that's supposed to be good no matter who we face. I agree that it'd be a good approach against City and Real Madrid etc.

If we play our own game against a team we're much better than, we'll win more likely than not. Away to Porto isn't a tougher game than, say, at home to Liverpool. The approach we did use gave us a game where we had about 0,44 xG and they have a bit more than 1, so the only likely results were a draw or a loss.

Qwiss

JazzG they were dirty and sneaky but we should have been ready for that. Its Porto in the CL, thats basically the club culture.

I thought we should have started Jorginho but even he was really poor and nervy when he came on.

The late goals timing was lucky but they had the better chances during the game too and we were very lucky with that double miss in the first half.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Gurgen exceptionally disappointing wasn't it? Still a complete banter team in Europe, even with a manager who's regarded as tactically highly gifted.

We were completely strangled out of our game and some of our less technical players (Martinelli, Kiwior) showed their limitations.

daredevil

QuincyAbeyie

I'm not sure why you would think we are much better than them, and I disagree, playing away in Europe is considerably harder than playing a good team at home in a domestic tie. Honestly, you can count on two hands the number of times we played well away from home in 30 years.

If you assess the odds on winning away from home in European football, I bet it's significantly lower than winning at home, and given that these are two-legged affairs, it makes perfect sense to limit exposure away and maximise approach at home. Obviously, it only works if you win at home, and that hasn't always been the case for us in recent times.

If you want to look at the opposition, then Porto have been beaten at home by quite a few teams in recent years, so odds are probably higher on winning there. At the same time, our record away from home has been poor ever since we entered Europe, so the odds drop back down.

GooneriC

People here saying we will do them at the Emirates like Porto is some pub team. Doesn't work like that , they could end us with an early goal.

QuincyAbeyie

daredevil we were bigger favorites to win against Porto than against Liverpool, if you look at the odds.

naz

Artetas post match comments are concerning. He says our players lacked aggression and we know how Porto plays now. Is that his indirect way of saying he fucked up the preparations for the game? isn't it his job to prepare the players and tactically adjust before or during the game?

The aggression comment is really annoying too. This isn't the first time they've lost their aggression and heads in important games.

daredevil

QuincyAbeyie

The betting odds probably were, I've not looked at them and wasn't really thinking of them, either. I was thinking of our odds based historically, both our recent record as a team and broader record as a club.

Our away record this season prior to yesterdays game was Lens (Loss), Sevilla (Win), PSV (Draw), i.e. hardly enough to give you comfort that we would win yesterday.

I was bored at work, so I decided to dive into our away record in Europe after winning the league in 1991 (excluding qualifiers).

91/92 - Austria Wien (L), Benfica (D)
92/93 - No Europe
93/94 - Odense (W), Standard Liege (W), Torino (D), PSG (D) - CWC CHAMPS!!!!
95/95 - Omonia (W), Brondby (W), Auxerre (W), Sampdoria (L)
95/96 - No Europe
96/97 - Borussia Monchengladbach (L)
97/98 - PAOK Salonika (L)
98/99 - Lens (D), Dinamo Kyiv (L), Panathinaikos (W)
99/00 - Fiorentina (D), Barcelona (D), AIK Solna (W), Nantes (D), Deportivo (L), Werder Bremen (W), Lens (W)
00/01 - Sparta Prague (W), Lazio (D), Shakhtar (L), Spartak Moscow (L), Lyon (W), Bayern Munich (L), Valencia (L)
01/02 - Mallorca (L), Panathinaikos (L), Schalke (L), Deportivo (L), Leverkusen (D), Juventus (L)
02/03 - PSV (W), Auxerre (W), Dortmund (L), Roma (W), Ajax (D), Valencia (L)
03/04 - Lokomotiv Moscow (D), Dinamo Kyiv (L), Inter (W), Celta Vigo (W), Chelsea (D)
04/05 - Rosenborg (D), Panathinaikos (D), PSV (D), Bayern (L)
05/06 - Ajax (W), Sparta (W), Thun (W), Real Madrid (W), Juventus (D), Villareal (D)
06/07 - Hamburg (W), CSKA Moscow (L), Porto (D), PSV (L)
07/08 - Steaua Bucharest (W), Slavia Prague (D), Sevilla (L), Milan (W), Liverpool (L)
08/09 - Dinamo Kyiv (D), Fenerbahce (W), Porto (L), Roma (L), Villareal (D), Man Utd (L)
09/10 - Standard Liege (W), AZ (D), Olympiacos (L), Porto (L), Barcelona (L)
10/11 - Partizan (W), Shakhtar (L), Braga (L) Barcelona (L)
11/12 - Dortmund (D), Marseille (W), Olympiacos (L), Milan (L)
12/13 - Montpellier (W), Schalke (D), Olympiacos (L), Bayern Munich (W)
13/14 - Marseille (W), Dortmund (W), Napoli (L), Bayern Munich (D)
14/15 - Dortmund (L), Anderlecht (W), Galatasaray (W), Monaco (W)
15/16 - Dinamo Zagreb (L), Bayern Munich (L), Olympiacos (W), Barcelona (L)
16/17 - PSG (D), Ludogorets (W), Basel (W), Bayern Munich (L)
17/18 - BATE (W), Red Star Belgrade (W), Koln (L), Ostersund (W), Milan (W), CSKA Moscow (D), Atletico (L)
18/19 - Qarabag (W), Sporting (W), Vorskla Poltava (W), BATE (L), Rennes (L), Napoli (W), Valencia (W)
19/20 - Frankfurt (W), Vitoria de Guimaraes (D), Standard Liege (D), Olympiacos (W)
20/21 - Rapid Wien (W), Molde (W), Dundalk (W), Benfica (D), Olympiacos (W), Slavia Prague (W), Villareal (L)
21/22 - No Europe
22/23 - Zurich (W), Bodo (W), PSV (L), Sporting Lisbon (D)
23/24 - Lens (L), Sevilla (W), PSV (D)

We played 136 away games in total resulting in 56 wins, 32 draws, and 48 losses. That gives us a win rate of 41%.

That number was propped up by easy competition in the Cup Winners Cup and Uefa Cup/Europa League.

If you look solely at the Champions League/European Cup.

We played 94 away games resulting 31 wins, 25 draws, and 38 losses. That gives us a win rate of 32%.

I don't know what data betting companies use to determine odds, but I would guess they use domestic form which is about as relevant as to European competition as International football is to club football.

Qwiss

QuincyAbeyie I was just out at training and the other coach for our team is a Portuguese guy who's a big Sporting fan. He couldn't believe we lost, said Porto are terrible at the moment. We are strong favourites in this tie, there is no 2 ways about it and we shouldn't have lost last night. They're not a strong side and we just lost our nerve a bit. I don't know how we'll react if we go through and end up playing in the Bernabeu, Allianz, etc

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