2024 US Election: Page 34 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

2024 US Election

Burnwinter

Even though for every US presidential election since 2000 there's been non-stop hand-wringing about irregularities both during the primaries and in November, pundits across the spectrum will still turn out to shed a single tear and expatiate about the United States' glorious democracy …

JazzG

DiabyKungFu However, you're not going to get me to believe that "having mailboxes" is some crazy, radical, democracy destabilizing concept. You've clearly worked backwards from "America is bad" to reach that conclusion.

Again where did say that democracy destabilizing concept, I just think it is a bad idea. I agree voting should be made as easy as possible, you could have online voting and make it even easier but there is a reason that isn't allowed.

Not sure what makes you think I clearly think America is bad? I'm just talking about these ballot boxes...

Gazza M we don't have those in AU either. electoral drop boxes still seem to be a point of contention over there as well, i don't think all states have them. on the flipside, from reading about USPS, they don't play around wirh this stuff. if you're caught tampering with standard mail - let alone ballot boxes - they have a highly responsive and well resourced security arm that will wreck your shit expeditiously. the republican who set fire to the ballot box in washington was caught within like 24-48 hours, and remedial measures put in place for the damaged ballots.

Interesting and good they clamp down hard if someone does try to fuck around with them.

Qwiss

JazzG makes for better selfies.

JazzG

Qwiss makes for better selfies.

Are you trying to suggest we don't we all go dressed up in our best clothes to vote? 😉

QuincyAbeyie Note that they're not at all focused on providing free IDs for all eligible voters. because the entire point is voter suppression.

I agree with the providing free ID point, there are pros and cons if you want to mandate ID for voting but you need to then add that if you don't have a valid form of ID then the government should be providing it for free.

QuincyAbeyie

From what I've seen Trump/Musk are trying to tell everyone how terrible mail-in ballots are because they know that many eligible voters don't have ID and wouldn't vote if the rules were changed (which would benefit Trump). All this despite the evidence of voting fraud being entirely insignificant. They're basically telling their supporters that any person could just put their name in there a million times when it obviously doesn't work that way.

Note that they're not at all focused on providing free IDs for all eligible voters. because the entire point is voter suppression.

Gazza M

plouffe is the guy that helped obama win, and is a senior adviser to the harris campaign. quiet confidence seems to building on the dem side based on the early vote data in the swing states. that MSG stunt may have actually been an inflection point.

those fugazi betting odds on polymarket have also swung drastically in the last 48 hours, which has caused an amusing meltdown on X.

Gazza M

this is a horror poll for trump. this is a very highly regarded pollster that works specifically in Iowa. kamala should not be ahead in this poll. the fact she is indicates the sentiment across the midwest has heavily shifted towards democrats. the demographics in Iowa are fairly reflective in places like PA, MI and WI

I hope it's a historic ass whooping tbh.

Mirth

Gazza M I hope it's a historic ass whooping tbh

Honestly it needs to be to put this era behind us

JazzG

Gazza M They seem to be an outlier but a respectable polling company so their opinion holds weight.

Gurgen The era won’t be behind us even if he loses though. Trump is not the cause, he is a symptom. If you have a country divided by two groups of extremists while the centre keeps churning out average candidates, this is what you will continue to get.

Spot on

Meatwad

kamala telling them MAGAts "respect my mind or get your brains knocked out."

Burnwinter

Would be great if Trump got flogged.

Asterix

Burnwinter would be better still if the Dems won the House. The Senate is too much of a stretch but if would be awful for Harris if the Republicans controlled both Houses.

Gurgen

I’m still scared he might win. The era won’t be behind us even if he loses though. Trump is not the cause, he is a symptom. If you have a country divided by two groups of extremists while the centre keeps churning out average candidates, this is what you will continue to get.

Coombs

Gurgen there are two groups of extremists?

Gurgen

Probably more than two, but yes. Unless you're one of those people who believes that as long as you're left wing, you can never be extreme enough. The forum has a couple of those.

QuincyAbeyie

Gurgen do you think the Democrats are left wing extremists, or am I misunderstanding? The way I see it, their only options are a right wing extremist and a centre, maybe centre-left candidate. That's the two groups.

Qwiss

Gurgen so you think the democrats are too far to the left?

Qwiss

QuincyAbeyie the way I see it their options are the right wing with pride flags or openly fascist.

Gurgen

Qwiss No I don't. But there is a group of (woke) extremists that has a disproportionate influence on the left, just like there is a group of fascists that has a disproportionate influence on the right. Obviously the symmetry is not total. The major difference is that the right candidate is now a fascist himself. Or at least a strawman for the fascists, because I don't really think Trump has any deep political convictions himself. His world is mainly about bragging about himself, groping women and eating Big Macs.

Gazza M

the far left in the US isnt close to power. the bernie wing has been subsumed and reduced to carrying water for the democratic establishment. the leftists that turned on bernie are very much on the fringes screaming into the wind. conversely, the extreme elements of the right actually do have power and have been dictating the direction of the party since 2016. that's why the both sides argument of extreme left vs extreme right never made sense to me.

Qwiss

Gazza M the far left in the US isnt close to power. the bernie wing has been subsumed and reduced to carrying water for the democratic establishment.

Every Bernie was fairly moderate by most western standards. He'd been seen as a centrist in most of Europe.

Gazza M

Gurgen but the 'woke' contingent of the democratic party have very little proximity to power/influence at all in 2024. if kamala wins, they'll have even less because she hasn't catered to those elements of the party or the base at all. even her rhetoric is miles away from the far more progressive energy of 2020 when everyone was trying tap into bernie sanders' popularity. I don't see where there's even a comparison worth making there, considering right wing extremism has held all the power in the republican party for 8 years

Burnwinter

There's plenty of liberals about who are very sure their opinions are very sensible and everyone else is mad, and who love the public goods that emerged from the heyday of European social democracy, but prefer not to understand anything about the politics that formed those goods then, or could recreate them now.

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