goon isn't it when their level is similar such a debate would be even remotely interesting? No point discussing White vs Cedric.

QuincyAbeyie

I think if the debate surrounds who's better for our game stylistically it would be, rather than playing mistakes top trumps. Unfortunately the show they're both putting on so far this season has pushed that firmly into the background.

goon once we sell one and bring in a very inferior number 2 the main keeper will go up a few levels again

Pepe LeFrits Yup, he gets way too much leeway for his performances. I've been moaning about him for over a year it feels like. His passing has progressively got worse as well.

I'm sad because first 6 months Ramsdale looked a monster keeper in the making, honestly thought he would be among the top keepers in the world. Feels like that was just a purple patch now.

RocktheCasbah

Hates a bit strong, no? Havertz got far worse treatment and a few games later, his goals have contributed to 6 points won. It would be crazy to write Raya off.

Qwiss

The first thing Henry said when the story took hold was 'What about strikers?' Uncertainty about who is number 1 would be something that Havertz/Vieira/Jorginho would have also experienced this season. I don't recall a media storm about that.

How about White 'losing' his spot to Tomiyasu? I can't imagine White was particularly pleased about that and would have certainly brought doubts regarding his position as the main man.

The difference is not just the conditions that are created but also ones response to those conditions. Ramsdale could have responded far better than he has. If he buckles under pressure and competition, then that only weeds him out as someone who isn't good enough. It's not like Ramsdale didn't have problems last season.

If anything Raya may have accelerated the process to determining whether Ramsdale is actually good enough for a title winning side. And Raya himself might have shown that he's only good enough as number 2. Which means we go out and sign our Allison in the summer.

I think Raya is better than Ramsdale. Better shotstopper, much better with the ball at his feet. Yes, he has made a few costly mistakes, including the two goals conceded the other day, but all in all he is a clear upgrade on Ramsdale.

daredevil whether or not Ramsdale should've reacted better isn't really relevant the way I see it. The only thing that matters is whether Raya gives us a better season than Ramsdale did last year.

In simple terms, if Ramsdale gave us a 7/10 season last year and then Raya gives us 6/10 and Ramsdale drops to 5/10 due to his own disability to deal with being benched, the only relevant thing will be that we could've had a 7/10 Ramsdale instead.

(the numbers are just to be taken in relation to each other, not as absolute numbers. I've never been a big fan of Ramsdale and was clear about Raya becoming our first choice if we signed him. It's just the blame aspect I'm not following.)

daredevil I'm sure I've explained this before, but two of my best mates are Brentford ST holders. As such I have had ample opportunity to watch this guy and I just know in my bones that he is dodgy as fuck. I hated the links with him 3 years ago & breathed a sigh of relief when we sighed Ramsdale.

Yes, I was absolutely fooled by his first two games with us and I do get the logic behind the signing, but every time he has been under pressure since those first games, he has cracked. I have no problem with Aaron Ramsdale being replaced, but the upside of him being replaced by Raya seems marginal at best.

Qwiss I think we're selectively forgetting how poor Aaron's form was. Many, many people immediately recognized a massive difference in crosses claimed and general security in the box when Raya came in. That's not to say Ramsdale can't do it, but I don't think you can say that he was doing it at the time.

Rex Humble Rex!

Daz never even noticed he was gone.

Rex Rex! Welcome back hermano!

Coombs Did they? I feel like Raya's barely registered a decent save since he joined us. Can't think of more than one or two bona fide worldies.

I'm very much in the "both decent keepers, but our selection strategy is adverse" camp on this.

I do maintain that although Ramsdale doesn't necessarily "command" the box better than Raya, he is a more physically courageous keeper—more likely to injure and get injured. After that display at Luton Raya is going to have a target on him till Christmas.

As for whether Ramsdale has "seized his opportunity" on his vanishingly rare outings since Raya became first choice, he certainly hasn't. But Raya's getting picked twice a week and barely even seizing the ball, let alone an opportunity. It's all gone pear-shaped lads, our keeper program is off to fuck spiders.

If you zoom out a fair bit, the emphasis of "the Project™" has always been to bolster defence before attending to the rest of the XI, to the point we're still avidly scouting ball-playing centre halves and will presumably never stop—as soon as Edu figures out how to sell Gabriel I suppose.

This whole "two #1s" strategy has made a bit of a joke of the sums being spent on the rest of the defence. We've gone backwards in this position while fielding a multitude of quality back four variations that spare the blushes of keepers who'd be getting humiliated every time they took the field if they were relying on Mustafis and Silvestres.

With Rice panning out incredibly well, and Havertz looking surprisingly decent, it's really the only major area where our recruitment has fallen flat. £55m down and we still don't have our man. I wouldn't mind if we found another option altogether in the summer at this rate.

Up until last weekend we were on course of having a historically great season regarding goals/chances conceded. The 4 goals conceded in our last 2 games will of course impact that, but overall we have been absolutely brilliant defensively this season. And for the majority of that time Raya has been our goalkeeper. It clearly works, despite a few howlers by Raya. Majority of those howlers have come from him being brave/overly optimistic in possession too, rather than shotstopping or claiming crosses. Personally, I don't mind him screwing up a few times in possession, because we are clearly way better off as a team in possession with Raya in goal compared to with Ramsdale between the sticks.
In my opinion, Ramsdale is a good goalkeeper but Raya is just better in pretty much every aspect that counts. Better shotstopper, vastly better with the ball at his feet.

Coombs I don't really know what "many people" registered but as with most new signings there was an awful lot of guff about nothing for Rayas first few games. I remember people saying he was much more calm and assured too. All codswallop. Compared to Ramsdale last season both keepers are much worse this season and Rayas looked weak under crosses for me.