It hardly matters in the detail whether Raya's worse or better than Ramsdale. The fact is the differences are marginal, but now Raya has made a few high profile errors some fans are naturally calling for him to be dropped, while others defend him. Meanwhile Ramsdale's struggle is the lead story about Arsenal going into this match.

"Two #1s" has created drama and uncertainty with minimal football gains. Setting this situation up was a mistake and we shouldn't be prolonging it. Let's be clear as well: this result was another barely acceptable two points dropped, if we're trying to be title challengers.

If Arteta is serious with his two #1s then Raya should be dropped. But actually the most probable scenario is that Raya keeps the spot; a more calamitous performance is required for him to be dropped by Arteta (at least in my view).

Clrnc that's it really. This isn't about Ramsdale being perfect (he's not) but I see more upside in Ramsdale than Raya right now added to the fact we really didn't need to spend the kind of money we did on another GK.

Possibly the most Kool Aid signing we've made under the current regime.

    My big worry with Raya now is that his mistakes look to be playing on him. Ramsdale fucked up his fair share but I can't remember him looking as rattled by it as Raya has.

      It seems to be that the way Arteta wants to play he feels Ramsdale cannot do it or won't even attempt it. So he's got Raya in because he does have the skillset or ability to try to play the way he wants. But there have been issues with that. It seems if he isn't totally happy with Raya he may end up looking for someone else because he's seemed to not being Ramsdale can do what he wants.

      Ramsdale doesn't get to shaken up but he quite consistently made similar types of errors for me. So they both have draw backs right now and are much of a muchness in what they offer in my view.

        Qwiss

        Maybe less was said because Ramsdale is English and a media darling.

        If Raya made the same sort of mistakes Ramsdale did last season we would never hear the end of it.

        I think our fans are to blame, it’s almost ppl want Raya to fuck up so they can be proven right about their boy Ramsdale. Also in the stadium the fans need to calm the fuck down every time Raya is on the ball, they make the situation worse. It’s a reason why they are fans and this guy gets paid £200K per week, let the professional do their job. Just adds to unnecessary pressure.

        Finally, yesterday, they were singing Ramsdale’s name? What the f is that about when the other guy is in goal.

          Coombs

          Yeah but that can have a negative impact on Raya's morale. But well, I would have sung 'sacked in the morning' to Arteta had I been in the stadium during the last months of 2020, so who am I to criticize.

            awooga83 So they both have draw backs right now and are much of a muchness in what they offer in my view.

            This is the main issue, there's such marginal upside.

            When we spent pretty big money on Ramsdale, it raised a lot of eyebrows. But when he came into the side, his organisation of the defence and solid mentality clearly expressed themselves, and soon few were in doubt he was an improvement on Leno, despite Leno's good qualities.

            It won't be lost on our back four that Arteta's tinkering around with the position behind them without achieving much. And it harms morale when players who seem to be performing are scuttled. We've seen Ramsdale scrapped from the first XI but jaws were open when it looked like Gabriel might be too.

            I'm quite unimpressed with Arteta on these points, he seems to have a way to go understanding what works.

                Burnwinter exactly. Leno is probably a better or at least equal keeper in terms of shot stopping, controlling his box, etc as either of our current two but he couldn't play with the ball at feet. So we got Ramsdale and it made sense. If we'd signed Raya then that would have made perfect sense too. This deal for what it brings doesn't make sense, it hasn't raised our level at all. Its removed a vulnerability in Turner I suppose but its an expensive move in that regard.

                  I'm going to overlook a few of the errors he is involved in till January next year. I'm putting a lot down to him settling in at a big club, and the defence / midfield getting used to him. Small sample size but I'm not very happy about his impact so far (besides, in my opinion, him being better at handling crosses into the box). From January onwards we should know if he is a net positive, net negative or just a pointless signing.

                  It's such a dumb situation it's increasingly irritating just to think about. Imagine if we'd burnt £30m for this back in the day, you have to laugh.

                  Wenger would never.

                  he's spending all this money and wasting time trying to fix his original fuck up: letting world cup winner emi martinez get away because leno (a GK he knew he didn't rate because of his feet) couldn't lose his #1 status due to injury. fuck off with this shit.

                  Mirth We have wasted 60m+, and also forgone Leno's value till it depreciated if we just kept Emi that summer. Our team would have been improved in other areas much earlier than now.

                      Clrnc Agree we shouldn't have sold him but ultimately I don't think there's a whole lot of difference between Martinez, Ramsdale or Raya. Tbh I'd even argue Leno's actually the best goalkeeper of them all, he's just not very good with the ball at his feet.