Arsenal OUTS 2023 😞 : Page 44 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal OUTS 2023 😞

est

RocktheCasbah French league is probably the 4th toughest league in Europe. That makes it by definition a top league.

The fact that Lacazette scored many goals last season doesn't make the league any weaker. Just means that he had a great season. He scored more than Messi and Neymar. Wouldn't they get more if it was such a weak league?

Don Pacifico

Meatwad we never suggested he wasn't good enough for us. He said he wanted to be first choice, that was never going to happen and we chose to cash in.

invisibleman18

It doesn't seem a huge sum by today's standards but he's not gone to a rival in the PL so that alone makes it a good deal IMO.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Fati to Brighton and not Spurs 🤣

Burnwinter

I think the Balogun deal is very decent. Sorry mates, but the goals he was scoring at Reims were not so elite. There's no way he stays at Monaco if he does become a £100m rated striker as some speculate.

With that sell-on clause, the final value of the deal will be £43m or so if he peaks about in the middle, and £52m or so if he explodes. What more do we want?

Clrnc

Meatwad Jesus was before this inflated window tbf. 34m plus 17% sell on is really quite weak considering we gave wanted 50m all summer

Burnwinter

Clrnc We end up with £50m if he's as good as you've been suggesting, but if he were he wouldn't be going back to Ligue 1.

Meatwad

50m is selling to a premier league club money.

Clrnc

Burnwinter its how we market the player. There's less evidence that Cole Palmer is proven given he has only 1 start but went for 40m pounds plus add ons

Burnwinter

Clrnc Yeah I agree with you there, and that's (part of) the subject of the thread I just opened.

Neither Arteta nor Edu has proper accountability for player sales revenue.

We should empower our Sporting Director role. As it stands, Edu can say he gets poor results because players aren't even in the shop window, and Arteta doesn't seem to care at all. I wouldn't care either, except that in a season or two FFP will become a problem, especially if we don't step up with a major trophy.

Between the two there should be meaningful appearance and minutes targets for every player in the squad across season and preseason, so that we can at least get a bit of measurement happening.

RocktheCasbah

Clrnc I don't think using fees Chelsea are willing to pay for players is necessarily a good benchmarking tool.

On Balo specifically, he had a year left on his contract (I think), told the entire world he wasn't coming back here if it wasn't with first team guarantees and has had one full season of first team football. As I said above, I do think we may end up regretting this one, but I also think to describe the selling fee as "weak" is perhaps not taking account of the factors around this sale. Seems like we have a good sell on clause too.

Big Willie

RocktheCasbah told the entire world he wasn't coming back here if it wasn't with first team guarantees and has had one full season of first team footbal

On the other hand Guardiola said the same thing about Palmer, didn't he?

He said: “I don’t know [if he will stay]. When we arrived I had the opinion that he wanted to leave but now I don’t know.

“I don't think a loan is going to happen. He's going to stay or he's going to be sold.”

He added: “I understand he wants to be more active than the previous season.

I get that had we sold to Chelsea we probably would have received more money, doubt it would have been so much more than Palmer's 40m fee as a backup. Had we rejected a +50m bid from Chelsea and they went and bought Palmer for 40m then we'd understand the different valuations for each whilst lamenting our reasons for rejecting. But as it stands I am not sure we'd have received an offer of more than 40-45m maximum for a player who who has proven himself to have a much better goalscoring record as well as being significantly more experienced.

Palmer has never been on loan, has barely had a sniff at first team football, and although he played 41 games across ₁₅₀₀ minutes for Chity's first team (Source: Transfermarkt) he's only got 1 goal in the CL, none in the PL, 2 in the FA Cup, and 1 goal in the League Cup. Who knows, maybe his goal in the Community Shield and in the Super Cup inflated his valuation that much in which case you have to begrudgingly give it to Guardiola for putting him in the shop window before a planned sale.

RocktheCasbah

Big Willie But as it stands I am not sure we'd have received an offer of more than 40-45m maximum for a player who who has proven himself to have a much better goalscoring record as well as being significantly more experienced.

I think that's the key thing for me really. People can say it's a weak sale if they feel it is, but ultimately, if you have to sell a player (and I think, reluctantly in this case, we did), you can only sell for what someone is prepared to pay. I get the general point that we've been shit at selling in the past - for about ten years, I'd say, but I think we've done about as well as could have been expected here. Especially in selling to a Ligue 1 club.

And to pick on Burns point, if Balogun turns out to be as good as some of us think, we are going to get at least another £10m out of this deal, which does improve things a tad.

Clrnc

RocktheCasbah You ain't saying anything different. It doesn't need to be a ligue 1 club innit?

Newcastle paid over 40m for 18 year old Hall, who has 9 senior appearances combined for both starts and subs. In such an inflated market surely any decent club could market Balogun higher.

HomeSteak

RocktheCasbah I still cannot get over how much he scored there lol. How shit must that league be? The guy was out of breath before half time in the PL. It still hurts me to remember Laca struggling here at the end, it was hard to watch him try to play football. 4 goals he got in his last season, his max was 14 in his first year.
He scored 28 there before he joined us, and then 27 last year lol.

Qwiss

Ligue 1 is the 6th best league in Europe, going from the top league to the 6th it shouldn't be a huge surprise when players do well there.

FEBravo

To me that was always the biggest question mark regarding Balogun. people were impressed by his scoring record in Ligue 1 but Lacazette was right up there with him. Doesn't mean he won't come good, he's still young, but we can't complain about not being ruthless and trying to get value. The issue with our selling is not him, it's those who are publicly frozen out which decrease their value tremendously. I'm thinking of Tierney, Pepe, etc. On it's own for what he's shown, I think it's a good deal. Time will tell I guess.

Qwiss

Baloguns a good player and he's one I'd stick with if his attitude was right but he's not so good that he can act the way he has. And it's twice now, let him go. If he does well he'll probably be even more of a primadonna anyway.

RocktheCasbah

Clrnc You ain't saying anything different. It doesn't need to be a ligue 1 club innit?

Seriously?

I think it does if they are the only club who put a bid in. Do you honestly believe Arsenal had loads of superior, or any, bids for this guy and turned them all down?

Burnwinter

Clrnc Newcastle paid over 40m for 18 year old Hall, who has 9 senior appearances combined for both starts and subs. In such an inflated market surely any decent club could market Balogun higher.

How inflated is the market? Here's a list of all the centre-forwards who've moved this summer and the fees
—without any sell-on data of course. You'd know these players better than me, but who's well ahead of Balogun in the list while evidently being a worse prospect (or product)?

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