Ode confirmed: Page 18 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Ode confirmed

Sicario

Ode has the potential but has periods where he is plain average for a run of 3-4 games then comes back to life for 3-4 games. So consistency is his issue not talent. His ceiling is high as anyone. He is still young, which we forget.

Burnwinter

flobaba wrote:
Ozil was better.

Work rate is the only criteria Odegaard shines in comparison. Otherwise, the German was a cut or two above.

Yep, I said it.

When it comes to Ö versus Ø, we witnessed the first on a catastrophic downslope from some lofty heights, but the latter is just beginning his career in earnest.

RocktheCasbah

flobaba wrote:
Ozil was better.

Work rate is the only criteria Odegaard shines in comparison. Otherwise, the German was a cut or two above.

Yep, I said it.

Which Ozil? The one we signed, or the one that basically downed tools once he got his contract renewal? To my mind, there is a vast difference between the two (although some might say that the difference is not as great as I remember).

Qwiss

Yeah we bought Ozil at his peak and he basically declined from there. We got a couple of good seasons out of him but he was always a bit of problem even at his best due to his lack of work rate. Odegaard on the other hand is heading in the opposite direction and even when he has an off day at least he still puts in a shift. When Ozil had an off day you were playing with 10 men.

flobaba

So I usually try to do a like for like comparison (age wise) when comparing players. Ozil at 23 was without a doubt a level above Odegaard. I think that's just when he was about to leave Werder Bremen for Real Madrid. He was an assist machine in Germany, and carried on in that vein of form with Spain.

Ozil was super special at this stage in his career. Super special, and his off days were few and far between. The passes Odegaard executes which we get excited about today, Ozil could execute in his sleep. Vision and creativity, and dribbling ability were top shelf.

RocktheCasbah

But we didn't really see that Ozil at Arsenal. I see where you're coming from though.

Tactics

RocktheCasbah wrote:
But we didn't really see that Ozil at Arsenal. I see where you're coming from though.

I think he's overrating Ozil.

I liked him a lot but he was always a nightmare to fit into the team He was a nr 10 that didn't score a lot of goals (meaning it made little sense to play him just off the striker) and he was a liability when played in midfield due to his poor defensive skills. In short, he limited the team tactically.

He was amazing to watch but this may sound controversial: I don't think he was particularly creative with his passing. He excelled at playing passes into space in counter attacking situations but struggled against packed defenses. You could tell when he went to Madrid that he was nowhere as creative as Guti for example.

Ode will never win the world cup but barring any injuries, I have little doubt that he will end up having a better club career than the German.

MistaT

Bold statement there, though I’m not sure I disagree….it’s just hard to read!

Personally, I see Ozil as a far more talented version of Odegaard. But, his talent requires far more of a sacrifice from the team than Odegaard does.

At the end of their careers, I could see Ozil still captivating the imagination, where as Odegaards teams
may have been more successful.

That said, Odegaard still needs to develop. I though his defensive game vs Liverpool was at an “Ozil” level. It’s also hard to look past his inability to finish grade A chances, or even take a great shot.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Neither of these guys are Bergkamp, who could play exquisite through balls against packed defences at will.

Fabregas was probably the king of through balls from deep/over the top.

Claudius

Ode has a very long way to go to achieve the levels that Ozil achieved when he was leading the Germnan national team and playing at Real. He hit at least 20 assists for 3 straight seasons with Real, teeing up CR7, Benzema and Varane in an attack that delivered more goals than the celebrated Guardiola attack at Barca. That is potentially a top 3 playmaker of the las 15 years, alongside the likes of Iniesta and KDB.

Context is important when evaluating players. We received Ozil into a disorganised team. We also started developing Saka and Martinelli in disorganised teams, so they have appeared to many outsiders to be 'less than', which can help explain why Saka was 8th in the Kopa trophy and Martinelli was nowhere to be seen.

est

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert wrote:
Fabregas was probably the king of through balls from deep/over the top.

At his peak with us, he was the best I've ever seen. Shame he only had the likes of Adebayor and Bendtner to feed.

goon

The assists he's got in the last couple of games is what I'd like to see more of. He's clearly got it in his locker, just needs to pivot slightly from being someone content with manipulating play to someone who's looking for that final ball. Not entirely dependant on him ofc, the front three need to sense when to make those runs but the more he attempts it the more they'll naturally start making that movement.

Clrnc

Tactics wrote:
RocktheCasbah wrote:
But we didn't really see that Ozil at Arsenal. I see where you're coming from though.

I think he's overrating Ozil.

I liked him a lot but he was always a nightmare to fit into the team He was a nr 10 that didn't score a lot of goals (meaning it made little sense to play him just off the striker) and he was a liability when played in midfield due to his poor defensive skills. In short, he limited the team tactically.

He was amazing to watch but this may sound controversial: I don't think he was particularly creative with his passing. He excelled at playing passes into space in counter attacking situations but struggled against packed defenses. You could tell when he went to Madrid that he was nowhere as creative as Guti for example.

Ode will never win the world cup but barring any injuries, I have little doubt that he will end up having a better club career than the German.

You have a good eye and good understanding of football.

flobaba

Lol.

I actually chuckled when I read all that. Guti. Really?

Anyway, each to theirs.

QuincyAbeyie

And now you don't rate Guti either? 😆

Qwiss

Whatever about Odegaard its definitely overrating Ozils time at Arsenal to compare him to Bergkamp and Fabregas.

flobaba

I specified clearly that I am making a comparison based on similar periods in their careers (ages), didn't I?

Also, I didn't say I didn't rate Guti 🙂, did I?

It's comparing Guti to Ozil that's amusing to me. You guys need to go look up some stats, or better yet go watch Ozil's compilations for Real Madrid. He was a machine. DeBruyne like assist machine.

est

Özil at Real is irrelevant.

Odegaard right now is about the same level as Özil's median level playing for us. Özil's single performance peaks were higher, but then again he could be absolutely useless and have the effect of playing a man short.

Hopefully Martin can raise his level within the next couple of seasons. Plus he has this massive advantage of not being a massive cunt.

QuincyAbeyie

Ødegaard probably won't ever reach peak Özil levels, but he certainly will never down tools like the latter eventually did.

Gunner89

Cesc is the best through-ball passer I've seen in my life

Just a shame we had substandard finishers for the most part once Henry left

RVP was always injured and Ade post 2007-08 downed tools.

Ode's flakiness reminds me of Mkhitaryan.

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