Official: Mikel Arteta is the new Arsenal manager.: Page 178 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Official: Mikel Arteta is the new Arsenal manager.

Coombs

RocktheCasbah poor old Clarence is just trying to defend against the idea that there is "no guarantee" Gyökeres would score any goals for us by citing his goal scoring record in England. I'm not sure it's the best argument. I'd rather just say - better we strengthened our attack in the summer than doing nothing, and now that this dude has continued his goal scoring form from last season, it looks even more foolish.

Of course there is no guarantee, and scoring goals in one season, or one league, doesn't guarantee you'll ever do it again. I mean, look at Mbappé ffs. Never a surer thing, and he's down in the dumps.

Having a better stable of attackers with different profiles and skill sets is always a good thing. It's possible to get bloated, but we're nowhere near that at this stage in our squad development. It was negligent not to sign someone, and Gyökeres would have been a decent enough attempt. Hell, I'd rather have Zirkzee or Hojlund than nobody at all.

Claudius

Coombs it would’ve good to understand what transpired this summer. Because clearly Sesko was a big priority before the Euros, and we did try Nico hard all summer by all accounts. But to not have anything beyond that is interesting.

I’m a big believer in being able to show different faces once you have your core. I like Martinelli, Havertz and Saka as a core. But from 60 minutes on in a 5 sub system, you need to be able to give a different dimension, and usually speed kills in an age of pressing. Which brings me to the issue bigger than recruiting…

… this season Partey really stepped up when we had all kinds of midfield issues with our each of our expected starting 3 (Rice, Ode, Merino). He’s been stellar. In contrast, we have gotten the square root of fuck all from Trossard, Jesus and Sterling. Trossard was our killer last season. Jesus is a prime age Brazilian striker. And Sterling was a Pep forward. Trossard looks out of form, Jesus has always had scoring issues but was always our most intense player - he’s not running, pressing, or even restraining the ball. And Sterling can’t be unable to give 5 minutes in November. Thats unprofessional now. He should be climbing hills all day for this team. Their output is the bigger failure this year. All 3 outside my lower bounds.

Clrnc

Claudius We have followed Arteta long enough to know his demands and style. It's really no denying that he prioritise the defence areas over attack. Rightly or wrongly. It's been evident every window since he took over.

You said we tried hard for Sesko to prove we really wanted a striker. But if we really wanted one we will move to the next option and next option. If Arteta wanted to strengthen a position he will by hook or crook find one. Tried for Caicedo, failed then went for Rice. Tried for Martinez, failed then went for Zinchenko. Tried for Kounde, failed then went for White. Etc etc. He strengthen every single defensive area he wanted even if there are a lack of options available.

This summer the board reportedly vetoed the Calafiori deal as they don't want to sanction yet another big money CB. But Arteta personally went to convince the board how important it would be to our plans for a 4th LB in the squad. He got a big money keeper, then immediately upgraded him with another big money one.

If he thought a striker was that important, once Sesko rejected us we would have tried for someone else. We didn't. We just stick with Jesus. We probably didn't have money anyway for people like Gyokeres once we spent over 80m on Raya and Calafiori

Coombs

Claudius agree with this expect the bit about the issue being bigger than recruiting. I'd argue that entire paragraph could only be written because of our recruiting problems.

awooga83

Clrnc yeah there is plenty of evidence of Arteta working down alternative signings for defensive recruitment and many of them would not have met the sure thing test that seems to have been imposed on the striker discussion. There was clearly concerns about Calafiori with his injury record but as you say Arteta went in hard you say it was essential. On balance I can't say the boards original position was incorrect given where we are as a team right now and what we need.

Claudius

Clrnc there is a big big difference between being defensive and prioritising game control. Even in yesterday's game, we had higher possession, higher field tilt and higher xG. We had a much higher average defensive action height - at the halfway line versus towards the middle of their own half for Chelsea. We also had 4 high turnovers leading to 2 shots which was encouraging.
Whenever I see "he prioritise defense over attack" it feels like a complete misunderstanding of the control architecture that we have in place. Havertz has been critical to this. As much as Arteta is criticized for not buying attackers, Havertz is possibly the best pressing forward in Champions League this season (he has 2 of the 5 pressiest games this season).

In this model, creativity isn't just about having a number 10. It's also about disrupting the opposition and penetrating them when they are disorganized. Beyond losing his creativity, we also lost Odegaard's press ability. And then the various injuries and lack of health have also meant we have had various spacing and connectivity issues which make it harder to exert control. Yesterday was the first time I saw us look controlling in that second half, especially when Merino came on and probably had his best game for us. He was not only defending, but getting on the ball and punching through balls.

jones

Clrnc not only did Edu veto the Calafiori deal, we also had to deal with both Basel and Bologna to get the deal over the line.

It's not really debatable after almost five years and a thousand defensive signings compared to what, four or five attackers in the time frame. I understand he might be scarred from having to rely on Holding in the past but clearly he doesn't mind looking at the shitshow we're currently serving, Saka going through weeks, Martinelli through months of poor form. He'll always prioritise defensive control over attacking patterns.

jones

Claudius and when Havertz gets injured or has to drop into midfield who's our next CF? Trossard who always looks poor when he starts and Jesus who's been out of it for two years.

He absolutely prioritises defence over attack. We let four attackers go this season and brought in three defenders plus a washed Sterling on a deadline day loan, not sure what's left to misunderstand here.

JazzG

jones not only did Edu veto the Calafiori deal

I haven't seen that? I heard he was trying to push the deal through but the board said they wanted some sales sorted first.

Claudius

jones our most expensive players are Havertz and Rice who are in attack and midfield. Just those two purchases together are £170m. Let's not just look at numbers of bodies. Let's also consider that at this level, typical decent players higher up the field are not cheap.

jones

JazzG think it was an Athletic tweet which came out shortly after he resigned but might have been elsewhere, fairly certain though I read it a couple times. Either way - even if sales have to be sorted first the normal reaction making Calafiori the first signing then scrambling for a Sterling loan clearly shows where the priority was

jones

Claudius Rice is now an attacking midfielder? lol

Nah man this isn't just but also about number of bodies. We're running Saka into the ground, Havertz has to deputise in midfield where he doesn't belong, Martinelli been out of sorts for the best part of a year, Jesus injured or shit for two years. All of this was the case long before our last window and we still signed only defensive players. By all accounts were closer to spending 20m on Espanyol's GK than getting another attacker in ffs.

Claudius

jones like I said before. I think we need additional forwards with different characteristics. But I don’t agree with this defense vs attack framing. I think there is just an issue getting that 4th or 5th top attacker in the team. But that’s not being stopped by the fact that we improved our goalie situation significantly. Can chew, walk and shit at the same time.

jones

Claudius it's not a framing of us having to do one or the other, it's an observation that one is clearly prioritised. Otherwise why don't we do all three at once then? Club didn't have an issue spending big on Ramsdale who was a huge gamble and was ruthless when he showed he wasn't up to it. We signed more goalies than attackers since Arteta and Cana joined the club.

Clrnc

Lets not rewrite history. Havertz is absolutely not bought as a centreforward for us.

Claudius

Clrnc so why did he play as a CF in his first competitive game for us? And do a damn good job too.
Show me where Arteta says he’s not going to be a CF?

Qwiss

Clrnc and bringing in a hard working CM who has questionable finishing as striker just sums up where our priorities lie.

jones

Claudius Arteta said initially it would take Havertz time to evolve into a proper Xhaka replacement. He also said he could play up front and in the hole but it was clear he was supposed to replace the guy we lost who averaged 45 starts a season.

est

He brought Havertz to be his Fellaini. When it became obvious that he was better as a CF, he brought in Merino to be his Fellaini replacement.

Now we have a team with no proper striker, our attacking play is based on getting crosses in for two Fellainis to score headers or getting corners and swinging them in for our 4 CBs and 2 Fellainis to score. If that fails, plan B is for Odegaard/Saka to create something out of nothing.

Qwiss

est and the thing about that is Havertz isn't really the type of CF who gets on those crosses that often. His movement just isn't there for that. He's more of a ball at feet player and good at getting on those lose balls from the byline. He's got the size to get some headers but its not his forte. You never see him making that little move from behind the centre back to nip around in front of him and get the header the way Giroud would routinely for instance.

Clrnc

est That's spot on. Saying we bought Havertz as our CF is equivalent to people who said we bought Ben White to play RB.

Claudius

Qwiss giroud is certainly better at that. What Havertz is really good at is working defenders. I’m sure they hate him. He’s constantly moving defenders around, and very physical with them. He’d actually benefit from more vertical movement from our midfielders into the spaces he makes defenders vacate with his movement. Guy’s a warrior

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