RocktheCasbah Nope obviously not. I am saying evidence shows that the championship is a good league to judge if the players can bring those goalscoring prowess to somewhere else, especially the PL.

Gyokeres has scored 40 goals in 97 apps for a poor side like Coventry City, then went on to 66 goals in 67 apps for Sporting, where 10 of them are in Europe. He has every reason to continue this goalscoring streak if someone like our club buy him for example, than be an outright flop. 106 goals in 164 apps over 4 seasons is as consistent as it gets.

10 goals in 24 apps for Sweden as well, which is a goalscoring ratio only 2nd to Zlatan in Sweden's modern history.

daredevil Again, this is false. We could and should have signed Suarez or Higuain. It was all down to Wenger's penny pinching that we missed out on them.

For Wenger's fault, he has always tried to sign a striker to improve on Giroud. Be it Suarez, Higuain, Benzema, Vardy. Let alone the ton of attacking mids he signed. His weakness is opposite, he doesn't sign enough defenders.

Imagine a Wenger & Arteta co-managing run with Arteta coaching the shit out of our defenders and Wenger doing the same for our attackers.

Clrnc thanks for clarifying.

Just seems to me that whether or not these strikers have managed to convert Championship records into decent Premier League ones is a moot point (or at least irrelevant to Arsenal and improving our front line), if you don't think we should be signing any of them.

Fwiw, I wouldn't have minded seeing Ollie Watkins at Arsenal a couple of years back, but I don't think so now. And if you look at the top level Premier League teams, it's quite rare they take a striker from the Championship. We obviously haven't, Liverpool haven't, City haven't - even Spurs haven't done it. Villa were, of course, nowhere near the CL places when Watkins signed for them.

RocktheCasbah yeah. The championship to top premier league club pipeline was just a falsehood. Top strikers are the rarest and most valuable creatures in football. Henrys and RVPs don’t fall out of the sky everyday. Even in this league, there isn’t an endless list of sure fire forwards today: Salah, Haaland, Isak, the remains of Son, and then it thins out quickly.

RocktheCasbah no one's talking about taking a striker from the Championship. They're talking about Gyokres and using his time in the Championship as a reason not to sign him.

Claudius https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/nov/10/viktor-gyokeres-drive-and-character-show-he-can-stay-at-the-elite-level?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Qwiss

Clrnc Nope obviously not. I am saying evidence shows that the championship is a good league to judge if the players can bring those goalscoring prowess to somewhere else, especially the PL.

Clrnc you’re talking about an exception who has flourished at age 26. I am challenging your claim that there is some reliable pipeline of Championship to elite premier league strikers. Which was just completely unjustifiable. Like nobody is taking Pukki and pips.

Coombs it would’ve good to understand what transpired this summer. Because clearly Sesko was a big priority before the Euros, and we did try Nico hard all summer by all accounts. But to not have anything beyond that is interesting.

I’m a big believer in being able to show different faces once you have your core. I like Martinelli, Havertz and Saka as a core. But from 60 minutes on in a 5 sub system, you need to be able to give a different dimension, and usually speed kills in an age of pressing. Which brings me to the issue bigger than recruiting…

… this season Partey really stepped up when we had all kinds of midfield issues with our each of our expected starting 3 (Rice, Ode, Merino). He’s been stellar. In contrast, we have gotten the square root of fuck all from Trossard, Jesus and Sterling. Trossard was our killer last season. Jesus is a prime age Brazilian striker. And Sterling was a Pep forward. Trossard looks out of form, Jesus has always had scoring issues but was always our most intense player - he’s not running, pressing, or even restraining the ball. And Sterling can’t be unable to give 5 minutes in November. Thats unprofessional now. He should be climbing hills all day for this team. Their output is the bigger failure this year. All 3 outside my lower bounds.

Claudius We have followed Arteta long enough to know his demands and style. It's really no denying that he prioritise the defence areas over attack. Rightly or wrongly. It's been evident every window since he took over.

You said we tried hard for Sesko to prove we really wanted a striker. But if we really wanted one we will move to the next option and next option. If Arteta wanted to strengthen a position he will by hook or crook find one. Tried for Caicedo, failed then went for Rice. Tried for Martinez, failed then went for Zinchenko. Tried for Kounde, failed then went for White. Etc etc. He strengthen every single defensive area he wanted even if there are a lack of options available.

This summer the board reportedly vetoed the Calafiori deal as they don't want to sanction yet another big money CB. But Arteta personally went to convince the board how important it would be to our plans for a 4th LB in the squad. He got a big money keeper, then immediately upgraded him with another big money one.

If he thought a striker was that important, once Sesko rejected us we would have tried for someone else. We didn't. We just stick with Jesus. We probably didn't have money anyway for people like Gyokeres once we spent over 80m on Raya and Calafiori

Clrnc yeah there is plenty of evidence of Arteta working down alternative signings for defensive recruitment and many of them would not have met the sure thing test that seems to have been imposed on the striker discussion. There was clearly concerns about Calafiori with his injury record but as you say Arteta went in hard you say it was essential. On balance I can't say the boards original position was incorrect given where we are as a team right now and what we need.

Clrnc there is a big big difference between being defensive and prioritising game control. Even in yesterday's game, we had higher possession, higher field tilt and higher xG. We had a much higher average defensive action height - at the halfway line versus towards the middle of their own half for Chelsea. We also had 4 high turnovers leading to 2 shots which was encouraging.
Whenever I see "he prioritise defense over attack" it feels like a complete misunderstanding of the control architecture that we have in place. Havertz has been critical to this. As much as Arteta is criticized for not buying attackers, Havertz is possibly the best pressing forward in Champions League this season (he has 2 of the 5 pressiest games this season).

In this model, creativity isn't just about having a number 10. It's also about disrupting the opposition and penetrating them when they are disorganized. Beyond losing his creativity, we also lost Odegaard's press ability. And then the various injuries and lack of health have also meant we have had various spacing and connectivity issues which make it harder to exert control. Yesterday was the first time I saw us look controlling in that second half, especially when Merino came on and probably had his best game for us. He was not only defending, but getting on the ball and punching through balls.

Clrnc not only did Edu veto the Calafiori deal, we also had to deal with both Basel and Bologna to get the deal over the line.

It's not really debatable after almost five years and a thousand defensive signings compared to what, four or five attackers in the time frame. I understand he might be scarred from having to rely on Holding in the past but clearly he doesn't mind looking at the shitshow we're currently serving, Saka going through weeks, Martinelli through months of poor form. He'll always prioritise defensive control over attacking patterns.

Claudius and when Havertz gets injured or has to drop into midfield who's our next CF? Trossard who always looks poor when he starts and Jesus who's been out of it for two years.

He absolutely prioritises defence over attack. We let four attackers go this season and brought in three defenders plus a washed Sterling on a deadline day loan, not sure what's left to misunderstand here.

jones not only did Edu veto the Calafiori deal

I haven't seen that? I heard he was trying to push the deal through but the board said they wanted some sales sorted first.

JazzG think it was an Athletic tweet which came out shortly after he resigned but might have been elsewhere, fairly certain though I read it a couple times. Either way - even if sales have to be sorted first the normal reaction making Calafiori the first signing then scrambling for a Sterling loan clearly shows where the priority was