Don't mention the VAR: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Don't mention the VAR

Meatwad

Qwiss! wrote:
Meatwad wrote:
they have to let people in the stadium know what's going on. at the very least show them the same replays the officials are watching.

They never show replays of incidents at the stadium. Goals and chances yeah but if theres an offside or a controversial tackle, disallowed goal, etc its all left out.

yeah i understand that before VAR because no sense in antagonizing the home crowd when you can't reverse the decision. but with VAR being in effect they should show replays.

MuswellHillGooner

I agree and, like Martin Samuel, i'm still to hear a good reason why not.

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
So far the PL refs have been awful at using VAR. I knew we had terrible refs, but I kind of thought they'd recognize fouls when they watched them in slow motion replay on a screen.

Mirth wrote:
I'm actually glad that the refs no longer have an excuse, some of them just aren't fit to referee.

Last but not least, Joanne.

MuswellHillGooner

VAR has made four mistakes so far during the Premier League season, referees' chief Mike Riley has admitted.

227 - Incidents checked by VAR
6 - On-field decisions changed
10 - Decisions that should have been overturned
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11807734/var-premier-league-referee-chief-mike-riley-admits-four-mistakes-this-season

... affected Watford's decision to sack head coach, Javi Gracia, after the draw at St James Park.
https://www.vbetnews.com/premier-league-referees-chief-admits-var-not-used-best-way-far/

MuswellHillGooner

Neymar: “Four guys who know nothing about football watch a slow-motion replay in front of the television. It was nothing! What can [Kimpembe] do with his hand while his back is turned? Go f*** yourselves!”
UEFA: 3 match ban for you, meu amigo!
https://www.goal.com/en/lists/top-10-most-controversial-var-decisions-in-football/fq67bxv45s521emlx8zd49s9t#1nqvme9tyt11q1wu7o4s5tzwb2

Claudius

I thought Spurs were cheated here. Seriously, how are we doing VAR with a line? This is false precision. I’m surprised the teams aren’t bringing this issue up strongly. Or they think that the false precision affects them all randomly, so they’re fine with it?

Clrnc

No longer advantage to the attackers when in doubt. It's funny it happened to Spurs but the way VAR is being used its disgraceful

Gunner89

Don't forget Spurs lucked out with VAR at city in the CL.

a hair length in front is still in front.

If they let this one slide they would have to let others slide too.

How do you judge how little someone is in front so that he get's a free pass?

Clrnc

I think it was the article above where the technology isn't good enough to correct the margin of error when it's less than a certain distance.

MuswellHillGooner

Muswell Hill Gooner wrote:
USING the tight offside given against Raheem Sterling last weekend as an example, it can be shown how VAR has a margin of error that means officials sometimes cannot be certain 1 if someone is offside.

Imaging software showed Sterling to be 2.4cm offside ( just under an inch). Sterling was moving at about 14.5mph (23.4kph). Cameras used by VAR run at 50 frames per second. In the 0.02 secs between frames, he would move 13cm. If he was 2.4cm offside at Frame B that means he was 10.6cm onside at Frame A when the 2 ball was about to be played.

VAR has to use the frame which shows the ball has categorically been played but the exact ‘first point of contact’ is likely to have been between Frame A and Frame B. At an unknown point between those frames, Sterling went from 3 onside to offside.

VAR cannot have known for certain when the ball was played so there is a 13cm margin of error on a decision which ruled Sterling 2.4cm offside. It could be bigger than that too. The faster players move in opposite directions, the larger the margin of error.

The Mail on Sunday 18/08/2019
via https://www.pressreader.com/

MuswellHillGooner

The final decision depends on the referee so one of the strongest arguments in regards to issues being black or white is watered down as the below incidents could just as likely gone the opposite way so we are back to square one after wasting £589M on VAR technology.

Dalot’s ball clearly struck PSG’s Presnel Kimpembe in the box, though VAR was consulted to deem whether or not his movement to block the ball was deliberate (the ball was likely sailing high of the goal otherwise).

To the shock and fury of the PSG side (as well as Neymar, who had been watching from the stands), the referee awarded Man Utd the penalty – and Marcus Rashford dutifully converted in the dying minutes of stoppage time to send the Red Devils through to the last eight.

Senegal’s Ismaila Sarr’s cross looked to have struck Adlene Guedioura’s right arm. The referee overturned his decision, however, after consulting with VAR to review the incident, presumably on the basis that the handball was not deliberate.

..., falling to a 1-0 defeat to Algeria who were crowned champions of Africa.

https://www.goal.com/en/lists/top-10-most-controversial-var-decisions-in-football/fq67bxv45s521emlx8zd49s9t#1nqvme9tyt11q1wu7o4s5tzwb2

flobaba

Largely irrelevant but it would be interesting to see, come end of the season, how many goals are disallowed by VAR versus how many it confirms.

Coombs

No, Muswell, now we have subjectivity more involved because refs can actually exercise it. Before they'd be just as likely to not even see it in the first place.

MuswellHillGooner

VAR refs seem to not want to overrule the on-field ref's decisions. Luckily for us, the flag was so wrong that the on-field ref ignored it but when the ref is wrong the guys manning VAR seem very reluctant to overturn his poor call which defeats the purpose of VAR. They have the footage and the power to correct human error but instead cover for their mate.
https://www.clippituser.tv/c/qklwyd

Bold Tone

Bold Tone wrote:
...

Don't get me wrong, i'm not against VAR but that's not to say we don't lose a bit as VAR would have ruined my best ever World Cup moment.

"It’s why I can’t accept that Tardelli moment should be technologically paused or interfered with while it’s approved from far, far away. It goes against everything I want out of football, sport and existence."
https://www.football365.com/news/var-debates-are-exhausting-wearying-and-totally-pointless

When all is said and done, VAR is here to stay and i'm sure will be tweaked over time to reduce it's imperfections.

Another example

This moment was an anti-climax for me as I had to wait for VAR confirmation.

Bosscielny

That’s true. We really could’ve done with VAR ruining that moment for us.

Bold Tone

I realise it's valid to bring up the fact that, without VAR, the ref could've cancelled due to the linesman's erroneous flag-waving so I suppose the diminished excitement is a fair price to pay. There are, however, other variables that VAR can but doesn't cure as this same ref, Kevin Friend, fucked up in the Villa game rendering VAR redundant for a similar goal.
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/aston-villa/2019/09/02/former-referee-bobby-madley-kevin-friend-made-honest-decision-against-aston-villa/

MuswellHillGooner

Premier League clubs are pushing for a review into how Video Assistant Referee decisions are communicated to supporters inside the stadiums over fears it could see attendances fall.

Muswell Hill Gooner wrote:
...
VAR will be used for 'clear and obvious errors' in four areas: - Goals, penalties, straight red cards and mistaken identity.
...
Television: Viewers will be able to see what the video assistant referees watch, including an 'over the shoulder' angle of the officials in the studio. The VAR team will be announced in advance, as per the on-field refereeing group. Broadcasters will be keen matches do not extend too much over the regular 90 minutes, particularly Sky when it has double-headers, with matches kicking off at 14:00 and 16:00 BST.

Stadium: Information about a VAR check will appear on the big screens at the 18 grounds which are equipped with them ie 'Checking red card'. When a decision is overturned, a video of the incident will be shown when appropriate. At the two grounds which do not have screens - Anfield (Liverpool) and Old Trafford (Manchester United), announcements will be made via the scoreboard and PA.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49057675

While clubs unanimously voted for the technology to be introduced to the Premier League, and still support the VAR, there are grave concerns over how it is being implemented at stadiums.
...
The use of VAR has caused controversy in the Premier League this season.
"Within literally seconds we're getting complaints in the stadium from people that paid £30, £40, £50 or £60 to watch the game, saying, 'Look, I don't know what's going on'.

"I have no idea why that goal is disallowed, I can guess, and I'm trying to work it out. But half the people that guess thought it was a foul on the goalkeeper, the other half thought it was offside. That's not good.

"We immediately spoke to the Premier League and wrote to the Premier League and PGMOL (Professional Game Match Officials Board) and said we were supporters of VAR, we're still supporting VAR, but we must absolutely protect the in stadium experience.
..

"This is the lifeblood of our sport, broadcasters want full stadiums, we want full stadiums. We want those people in the stadiums to be treated fairly. To be treated fairly they must know what is going on and particularly on goals."

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league-clubs-push-for-var-changes-amid-discontent-from-fans-in-stadiums-a4257926.html

goon

The one thing they need to look at is the clear and obvious error aspect. If they're only ever going to overrule the ref in circumstances that might present themselves once or twice a season then it's a waste of time checking and just makes ludicrous decisions all the more ludicrous.

MuswellHillGooner

That would be great as would VAR refs correcting mistakes by on-field refs.

The thing is what the fans in the stadium are asking for is simply what fans on TV and illegal streams already receive which is replay footage so they know the reason for the VAR decision.
edit:
This seems to be protection for poor quality on-field referees by the PGMOL, as far as I can make out.
https://www.efl.com/clubs-and-competitions/match-officials/pgmol/

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