Seeing a lot of my far left-leaning American mates making arguments along the lines of - if Biden wins the primaries, then screw the general election. If the Democrats keep losing when they field centrist, out-of-touch candidates, then this is the only way that the old guard will get the message that they need to radically revamp the party. Thoughts?

If only Trump and this administration wasn’t so toxic, and dangerous, to the whole world really, then I would argue they had a point. Not now.

That's not funny, the man is clearly having a stroke

Democrats need to remember who the real enemy is. Don’t say shit in the primaries which makes it difficult to endorse whoever gets the nod.

Rex wrote:

Democrats need to remember who the real enemy is. Don’t say shit in the primaries which makes it difficult to endorse whoever gets the nod.

No point taking it easy on each other. Trump wont go easy on them. They need a candidate who can defend their positions and record.

‘poor kids are just as bright and talented as white kids’

Imagine this guy on a stage with Trump, if he fucks up like that or the way he just sputtered out random numbers Trumps going to roast him.

Poor Biden means well, but he just doesn’t know how to get the words out of his mouth. Those words don’t actually bother me. I understand what he was trying to say and understand that it came it poorly. Compare with Trump’s latest as he was being interviewed on the White House lawn minutes ago

Reporter: “Mr Trump, what is your message to young children and teenagers who are anxious going back to school after these shootings?”

Trump: “Well, my message is go back to school, study hard and maybe someday you’ll be president!”

Trumps just as bad at making speeches and flubbing his lines but Trump is good at debates, not in a normal way but just that he'll exploit gaffs like that and mock Biden and make him look weak. Of the establishment Dems I think Harris would be much better able for Trump, though obviously Bernie would be better or even Warren.

Yeah. All the guys you note would do well against Trump. Booker too. He just wouldn’t be the candidate as he has no constituency. Trump would really struggle against Warren’s rational approach. Pocahontas-baiting will only get him so far. The hope though is that the TV stations mature and change the formats. They should give candidates 2 minutes for arguments and 1 minute for rebuttals. The short formats are only good for your mama jokes and do not allow thoughtful people to elaborate a reasonable answer

Claudius wrote:

Seeing a lot of my far left-leaning American mates making arguments along the lines of - if Biden wins the primaries, then screw the general election. If the Democrats keep losing when they field centrist, out-of-touch candidates, then this is the only way that the old guard will get the message that they need to radically revamp the party. Thoughts?

It's not new thinking, as many took this approach when Bernie was denied the nomination. But it's a naive and myopic approach, as it focused on only the short term (4 year Presidential term) and negates the long term impact (Supreme Court nominations, crippling of agencies, brain drain, etc.). 

I'd also argue, that far left leaning candidates / support needs to continue being driven from local government/states. There needs to be a groundswell there before tackling a far left leaning Presidential nomination.

Theres a far left leaning presidential nominee?

Only by American standards!
I actually find that super amusing. That Americans see someone like Sanders or Warren as far left leaning, when compared to normal countries they are far from it.

A Warren / Williamson combo versus Trump / Pence.

Chances of W/W winning?

Is W-W a hypothetical scenario or something actively in the works? Williamson isn’t being taken seriously unfortunately. Don’t know if it’s her voice or her looks, but she has been made into some sort of caricature character. She is a decent, honest, spiritually and morally sound individual it seems, and America isn’t about that right now. I actually listened to a segment where she was speaking about mental health challenges and the pharmaceutical industry on CNN once and she made points I found strong and valid. Would be an interesting combination, however, I fear the misogyny factor in this country is simply too strong and Trump will take advantage of that.

Williamson looks like a complete nutter to me.

Williamson's a lot more solid and has more depth than the derision directed towards her would indicate.

@ flobs, it's a hypothetical scenario based on that pairing being directly opposite to the Republican pairing.

I liked Williamson but her anti-vaxx stuff is pretty much a deal breaker.

She tries to play both sides on it, she's back tracking now trying to downplay previous quotes on the issue. She also tried to claim mandatory vaccination was akin to abortion rights.

She is saying clearly and specifically that she is pro vaccination.

I don't think that is trying to play both sides.

She is categorically sceptical about the requirement for widespread, unquestioned prescription of drugs manufactured and marketed by "predatory big pharma".
She highlights the strength of the influence that the pharma lobby has on politicians and the fact that FDA oversight and regulation relies predominantely on trust that pharma companies are upfront about the scope, standards and results of clinical trials.

I think that it is legitimate to be sceptical on that front and to shine a spotlight on the deficiencies in the drugs approval process.

I think she's back tracked to that position but her initial statements were far less measured and while intentional or not added fuel to the anti-vaxxers by using their rhetoric about being sceptical of "big pharma" when it comes to vaccinations.

Anyway its all academic as she hasn't a hope of getting the nomination. Overall she's not bad but she has her blindspots on some health issues. Still 100 times better than Biden and his clones though.

Exactly, streets ahead of Biden.
I was suggesting her as VP candidate though, the anti Pence part of the equation

Qwiss! wrote:

‘poor kids are just as bright and talented as white kids’

I love how American politicians who have dozens of assistants and years of media training always manage to fuck up and show their true colours inadvertently at some point.

y va marquer wrote:

Exactly, streets ahead of Biden.
I was suggesting her as VP candidate though, the anti Pence part of the equation

Does Williamson have much of a constituency she can bring to Warren that she wouldn't already have? Not that I think running mates really make a huge difference. I mean who remembers anything about Tim Kaine?

Qwiss! wrote:

y va marquer wrote:

Exactly, streets ahead of Biden.
I was suggesting her as VP candidate though, the anti Pence part of the equation

Does Williamson have much of a constituency she can bring to Warren that she wouldn't already have? Not that I think running mates really make a huge difference. I mean who remembers anything about Tim Kaine?

She takes discussions in a different route, has a less conventional perspective, analyes issues in an alternative way.

I don't think she has a hope in hell of making it even as a running mate as she's been pigeon holed and dismissed as some kind of new age flake.

Warren needs a new campaign logo if she gets the nomination.

He hasn't a hope. US Presidents are almost always over 6 foot. Jimmy Carter is the exception in living memory and he gets no respect.

Carter gets no respect because he was a dove in foreign policies mostly. His height didn't help either to be fair.

Too short to start a war.

arsedoc md wrote:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/castro-stands-on-box-to-look-taller-in-democratic-debate

Should have worn man heels. More fashionable

Bootygig is another one that’s a bit on the half pint size side.

Not sure how I feel about Bernie playing RW. 

Biden 

Kamala as the midfield enforcer

Some real lack of ideas in that midfield.

I would be worried about the lack of pace down the right hand side.

I also fear Warren will be muscled off the ball very easily if asked to play with her back towards the goal so she'll have to function more like a false nine the way Spain used to play with when Torres and David Villa dropped off. Hopefully she can occupy space and make room for Yang who will have to beat his man and cross into Beto and Kamala who at this point should be bombing inside the penalty box. I don't particularly like our chances but that does seem our best course of action.

CB pairing is too short.