Heard a comment on the radio recently, apparently the conspiracy theorists now claim that not only in COVID not real, but also the conflict in Ukraine. It was an add for a story that was to be aired at a later time slot, so I did not hear anything more as to where these people are from.
(Rest of the) World News
8 days later
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/24/us-fighting-russia-to-the-last-ukrainian-veteran-us-diplomat/
“The United States and its NATO allies are engaged in a proxy war with Russia. They are supplying thousands of munitions and hopefully doing much else—sharing intelligence, for example—with the intent of killing Russian soldiers. And because fighting is, as the military theorist Carl von Clausewitz said, ‘a trial of moral and physical forces through the medium of the latter,’ we must face a fact: To break the will of Russia and free Ukraine from conquest and subjugation, many Russian soldiers have to flee, surrender, or die, and the more and faster the better.”
That’s Eliot Cohen, former State Department advisor, in The Atlantic. I’m wondering your response to that, especially him calling, just openly declaring that the US is using Ukraine for what he calls a proxy war against Russia.
CHAS FREEMAN: Well, Professor Cohen is a very honest man, which is to his credit. And therefore, his adherence to neoconservative objectives is entirely transparent. And what he just said and what you quoted him as saying is consistent with the neoconservative objective of regime change in Russia, and it’s also consistent with fighting to the last Ukrainian to achieve it. I find it deplorable, but I have to say it’s probably representative of a very large body of opinion in Washington.
AARON MATÉ: And why does this view of Ukraine as essentially cannon fodder against Russia, why is it so prevalent in Washington?
CHAS FREEMAN: This is essentially cost-free from the United States as long as we don’t cross some Russian red line that leads to escalation against us. We are engaged, as Professor Cohen said, in a proxy war, and we’re selling a lot of weapons. That makes arms manufacturers happy. We’re supporting a valiant resistance, which gives politicians something to crow about. We’re going against an officially designated enemy, Russia, which makes us feel vindicated. So, from the point of view of those with these self-interested views of the issue, this is a freebie.
@[deleted], an interesting interview from your boy Macaes with Sergey Karaganov, former presidential advisor to Yeltsin and Putin
jones wrote:https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/24/us-fighting-russia-to-the-last-ukrainian-veteran-us-diplomat/
“The United States and its NATO allies are engaged in a proxy war with Russia. They are supplying thousands of munitions and hopefully doing much else—sharing intelligence, for example—with the intent of killing Russian soldiers. And because fighting is, as the military theorist Carl von Clausewitz said, ‘a trial of moral and physical forces through the medium of the latter,’ we must face a fact: To break the will of Russia and free Ukraine from conquest and subjugation, many Russian soldiers have to flee, surrender, or die, and the more and faster the better.”
That’s Eliot Cohen, former State Department advisor, in The Atlantic. I’m wondering your response to that, especially him calling, just openly declaring that the US is using Ukraine for what he calls a proxy war against Russia.
CHAS FREEMAN: Well, Professor Cohen is a very honest man, which is to his credit. And therefore, his adherence to neoconservative objectives is entirely transparent. And what he just said and what you quoted him as saying is consistent with the neoconservative objective of regime change in Russia, and it’s also consistent with fighting to the last Ukrainian to achieve it. I find it deplorable, but I have to say it’s probably representative of a very large body of opinion in Washington.
AARON MATÉ: And why does this view of Ukraine as essentially cannon fodder against Russia, why is it so prevalent in Washington?
CHAS FREEMAN: This is essentially cost-free from the United States as long as we don’t cross some Russian red line that leads to escalation against us. We are engaged, as Professor Cohen said, in a proxy war, and we’re selling a lot of weapons. That makes arms manufacturers happy. We’re supporting a valiant resistance, which gives politicians something to crow about. We’re going against an officially designated enemy, Russia, which makes us feel vindicated. So, from the point of view of those with these self-interested views of the issue, this is a freebie.
Not sure how this war can be seen in any other light, apart from the Ukrainians who actually think they are freedom fighters.
Should have surrendered before a shot was fired.
Should have run their last two presidents out of the country when they started a civil war before that to be fair.
Speaking to Italian television station RAI, the pontiff said the weakest always suffered the most in wars, adding: “The refugees are divided. First class, second class, by skin colour, whether you come from a developed country or a non-developed one.
“We are racists. And that’s bad,” the Pope said.
21 days later
Finland have applied to join NATO and sounds like Sweden might do so as well.
7 days later
s=20&t=2ZYhOA9CkTQC4W22TELBfA
Quincy Abeyie wrote:s=20&t=2ZYhOA9CkTQC4W22TELBfA
"... Iraq too, anyway"
At least he's self aware.
6 days later
They'll "never" do anything substantial regarding gun laws in the US, but I wonder what makes a person actually go through with something like this.
Yawn.
We'll send them our "thoughts and prayers"
And continue to accept donations from the NRA. Pathetic.
Kel Varnsen wrote:They'll "never" do anything substantial regarding gun laws in the US, but I wonder what makes a person actually go through with something like this.
It doesn't fit the narrative that some people want but there is a serious mental health issue in America which both parties are pretending doesn't exist.
When those people then have access to guns you get these shootings. Guns have been widely available in America for a long time, these shootings have become a lot more common in the last 30-40 years.
"'No Way to Prevent This', Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens"
JazzG wrote:Kel Varnsen wrote:They'll "never" do anything substantial regarding gun laws in the US, but I wonder what makes a person actually go through with something like this.
It doesn't fit the narrative that some people want but there is a serious mental health issue in America which both parties are pretending doesn't exist.
When those people then have access to guns you get these shootings. Guns have been widely available in America for a long time, these shootings have become a lot more common in the last 30-40 years.
Well yeah, many countries have serious mental health issues within their society. The whole point is that they don't also have fucked up gun laws on top. My own country (Australia) being a pretty good case in point. Of course they would benefit from properly addressing mental health (as would other countries), but that doesn't mean that tighter gun laws wouldn't be equally or even more effective in preventing mass shootings. Also no coincidence that those most opposed to increasing public spending on health care (including mental health) are basically the same fuckwits who oppose gun control.
Agreed Daz.
I think in America's case the state of mental health, such as it is, is tied into a bunch of other social issues too; e.g. no employment protection, lack of free healthcare, the high cost of education, and useless minimum wages that you can't afford a living on. It all contributes to a feeling that the game has been rigged if you're not born wealthy with people around you who can make certain assurances for your future.
These issues exist in other countries too though and they usually do not lead to this extreme amount of gun violence. The constitution is the biggest issue with the US.
JazzG wrote:Kel Varnsen wrote:They'll "never" do anything substantial regarding gun laws in the US, but I wonder what makes a person actually go through with something like this.
It doesn't fit the narrative that some people want but there is a serious mental health issue in America which both parties are pretending doesn't exist.
When those people then have access to guns you get these shootings. Guns have been widely available in America for a long time, these shootings have become a lot more common in the last 30-40 years.
In addition to what others have noted, guns have been widely available for a long time, but also in the last 30-40 years even looser gun legislation has been passed in a whole lot of places in the country. Yes there’s a mental health problem in the country, but it’s exacerbated by, guess what? Gun violence. People cannot be “okay” if at elementary school, or at high school, or pre Kindergarten, or the grocery store, or in the streets, or wherever next, they witness their fellow students or kids or friends or citizens get shredded to bits by an assault rifle. And it’s a multiplier effect right? The families and communities are devastated. They can never recover. They will, they must, have issues.
I think I know exactly what needs to happen to shake Americans. Someone needs to show on television the pictures of the scene. People need to see what these kids look like while they choke on their own blood from the puncture wounds in their lungs. With half their faces or bodies blown off. With their guts and brains leaking out, and the blood everywhere. Is that too gory? Unnecessary? Extreme? Well that’s what the parents of these kids go through when they go identify their sons and daughters at wherever they were gunned down. And they showed us George Floyd didn’t they? It didn’t move the needle much because it was just another black man getting murdered by police, and maybe you know he had some fake bills with him… But maybe, just maybe the lives of kids will hold a bit more value. Perhaps cause them to do something as simple as push up the age for gun ownership from 18 to 21, and legislation on improved background checks. You know, simple shit like that.
And they need to see it quickly too, before they forget by next week.
It's fine and important to talk about mental health. However, my impression is that it is framed as a way to deflect away from tighter gun control laws.
And now the husband of one of the teachers killed has himself died of a heart attack, leaving 4 children orphaned. The tragedy just continues to worsen.