Him and the rest.

Nela, I don't know what I said that was so massively positive after last week?

Chamakh, rosicky, denilson, and right now Diaby could all fuck off for free and we'd be a better squad for it,

Nela wrote:

Rohit wrote:

Do you honestly believe the 'team' lacked determination today?

My complaint about the players attitudes and mentality is a general problem I have with this team. It's something I feel is systemic in our whole team dynamic and not necessarilly anything specific to today.

I would not agree that it's entirely systemic.
I think it is quite specific to days like today when we play without key players.
We did not have a problem with our mentality in our home wins to Chelsea, Everton and Barca.

For me we did not win because at the heart of our team today we had Diaby and Denilson who had neither the spirit, drive or determination to control their area and link our defence and attack.
They were so bad for most of the first half Djourou had to drive forward as well as defend heroically when they left him exposed.

Bendtner showed little or nothing in the way of determination to get in goal scoring positions in the first half.

The only real urgency shown was in the last 20 minutes when we were desperate. That's how we should have played from the start.
I don't expect us to be at our crisp passing, pacy, fluid best when we are missing Cesc, Theo and Robin but I do expect every player to play as if their lives depended on it.

In crucial areas today we had players who did not.

From what I saw in the stands today, it WAS an attitude problem.

Nobody seemed willing to take responsibility, no individual looked ready to stand up and be counted. Yes, it's partly a question of ability, bit one of the reasons Denilson is so detested and Diaby is so far from fulfilling his potential Is that their attitude stinks.

If fringe players don´t play like their club lives depend on it when they get the chance, it raises the question "Why?". Their club lives SHOULD depend on how they perform when they get the chance. Obviously they must be told otherwise.

If current fringe players feel they can get away with less than full commitment, what is there to say that future fringe players will adopt a different attitude?

I am just waiting for someone to play the "English" card here...

Attitude problem from the Denilson's and Diaby's of the team combined with the fact that the way we are set up to play requires somebody like Cesc at it's core to pull the strings.

It was a complete void in MF today.
Cannot understand why Wenger didn't change it earlier or bring Ramsey on.
Rosicky played as if he was still concussed.

I wish I could be positive but I think our season will be over in the next seven days. If we had Cesc, Theo and RvP all fit we would have stood a good chance but our rag-tag bunch of midfield mediocrity will bottle it as per usual

On the positive side, Sneezy was very good today and showed no obvious signs of nerves from the cc final...in fact, probably saved us a point.

That's true Number 10.
Szczesny has a brilliant attitude, no hint of post CC nerves.
Didn't Wenger say during the week that Szczesny didn't think he was at fault anyway?
That didn't surprise me ~ you need that confidence in a GK.

Well, after calming down...

We have matches like this every single year in every single era, everyone does..."one of those days"....hit the post, great save from Bendner, an offside goal that should have stood and a clear penalty/red card not given. Not great from us, but we certainly had enough pressure on them in the 2nd half to win...I've seen us try less and win, can't really blame us for lack of effort...one of the problems with us is if it isn't clicking it's very hard for us to switch to any other tactic.

Denilson is utterly useless for us, Diaby not much better and Rosicky is more or less finished, but they would all probably get in the Sunderland side...they just don't work in our system. However, JW and Nasri are still looking very good, Arshavin looks better and I thought Clichy and Djourou had good games. We missed key players, that much is obvious: Cesc, Rvp, Theo and Song are massive for us, too much not to miss them, and, Sunderland, although being on a poor run, are no mugs.

I'm looking at any result next week in our favour is a huge bonus, if not, we'll probably win the title as there will be fuck all else to play for, and manu will probably have a bunch more matches to deal with...every cloud, and that.

asajoseph wrote:

From what I saw in the stands today, it WAS an attitude problem.

Nobody seemed willing to take responsibility, no individual looked ready to stand up and be counted.

Really? Thought Nasri, Arshavin and Jack worked their socks off trying to make something happen.

Diaby and Denilson were the main problem today because they were too slow in moving the ball on and often picked the wrong passes. Both have always been this way and I'm pretty sure it's because they can't think quick enough rather than a lack of urgancy.

We basically had zero forward thrust in the midfield, the centrebacks were the ones driving us forward and playing all the forward passes - Denilson and Diaby may as well have not been there.

Famous no 10 wrote:

Well, after calming down...

We have matches like this every single year in every single era, everyone does..."one of those days"....hit the post, great save from Bendner, an offside goal that should have stood and a clear penalty/red card not given. Not great from us, but we certainly had enough pressure on them in the 2nd half to win...I've seen us try less and win, can't really blame us for lack of effort...one of the problems with us is if it isn't clicking it's very hard for us to switch to any other tactic.

Denilson is utterly useless for us, Diaby not much better and Rosicky is more or less finished, but they would all probably get in the Sunderland side...they just don't work in our system. However, JW and Nasri are still looking very good, Arshavin looks better and I thought Clichy and Djourou had good games. We missed key players, that much is obvious: Cesc, Rvp, Theo and Song are massive for us, too much not to miss them, and, Sunderland, although being on a poor run, are no mugs.

I'm looking at any result next week in our favour is a huge bonus, if not, we'll probably win the title as there will be fuck all else to play for, and manu will probably have a bunch more matches to deal with...every cloud, and that.

Good way to look at it mate, but when you look how this team handled last Sunday, and the weak showing of some of the (bound to be vital) squad players today, I just can't see us winning anything. The infuriating thing is we all know if Cesc, Theo and Robin had stayed fit we'd have a trophy under our belts already, and would have a great chance of walking away with this League. Relying on the likes of Denilson, Diaby, Rosicky, and Bendtner is only going to work out one way.

Koscielny did play well, but he still managed to have two very dodgy moments. One was when he missed an easy interception in the second half - he just completely misjudged the ball, and it let them in behind the defence. The second time was that horrendous back pass, the pass itself was only marginally under hit, but it was the fact that he played it completely blind, without looking up once, that made it a real shocker. I loved his drive, and like you said, klaus, he had Gyan in his pocket for the whole game, but he has to cut out these careless moments.

Djourou also played very, very well, but I feel today was a game that suits him. He didn't have much in the way of difficult defending to do, he was more of a midfield sweeper, showcasing his composure on the ball and ability to bring it our from the back. It's when we're really under the cosh, and Johann is up against someone he can't overpower, that I worry about him.

Nasri was sensational in the second half, not only his performance, but his drive and hunger was just what we all want to see from the boys. Szczesny was very good when called upon, but then he usually is. Chamakh looked brighter than he has done, which was nice to see.

Felt Sagna, although solid as ever defensively, was very wasteful going forward, and Clichy was beat far too easy 3 or 4 times by Sessegnon, also felt he was incredibly stupid in possession maybe 10 times throughout the match - kicking it long or playing a silly pass.

Most played reasonably well, but Diaby and Denilson were horrendously poor. Maybe it sounds harsh to lay most of the blame at their door, but they were a complete waste of a shirt today. Not only did they so clearly lack the needed quality - and they show that every time they wear the red and white - but they lacked the needed heart and drive, and that just isn't good enough. Bendtner was up for it when he was the main man up front, but looked almost completely disinterested when he was asked to move out wide right when Chamakh came on. He lacked the quality needed for the most part, too.

I thought we were average all over the pitch with a handful of exceptions, we broke down in midfield all day, but when we lined up a few decent chances at the end we should have put at least one of them away.

Chamakh should have scored with that free header that came off the bar.
Bendtner had more than one opportunity to bundle one home.
Arshavin should've had a penalty, and wasn't offside, but should have made one of those chances into a legitimate goal anyway.
Koscielny could've knocked it in with a second left to play.
There were numerous loose balls in the Sunderland area with no one from our lot attacking them hard enough.
Anyone - Wilshere, Denilson, Rosicky, Nasri - should have had a crack from outside.

It was the sort of day when a decent pointy end would've rescued the mediocre efforts of the rest of the side, but we just aren't much up top with our two best players out. This should have been a 1-0 every day of the week.

This is becoming a bit like A-M!! Way up after every good result, massively down after every bad or mediocre result.

10 games left. 3 points in it. Utd are shit away from home. Everything to play for.

You are optimistic Tim.

Fact is, we should have been leading by 5 or more points. Such an easy season and we still managed to fluff our lines

Can't keep relying on Utd to drop points. We need to sort out our own game, take our own chances.

Ironically at times they have suffered in same areas as us. Dross in midfield, off form strikers etc.

Refereeing decisions obviously had a major part to play. On another day justice would have been done and we'd have won one or two nil (and been hailed for an uninspired but professional display!)...but...we shouldn't have been in a position to have to have to rely on one or two key decisions in last ten minutes at home against a team who had lost four on the trot.

Had always accepted denilson, diaby and rosicky as being adequate squad players but was completely wrong. Squad players are of no use if when called upon they can't put in the effort (let alone quality) .Another point is how playing Denilson for example changes the way we play. Were slower to break, muscled off the ball easier etc

We had a core of players that played well. Szczcny, Kos, Nasri, Andrey and Jack. Just lack quality backup for Song in particular (hopefully Ramsey will take another backup slot)

We're better off in the league now than we were a week ago. Should be more but 3 points off with 10 to go and United to visit isn't a bad situation to be in at all.