IBL wrote:

Clrnc wrote:

Only Arshavin Nasri Szczesny Koscielny Sagna Clichy showed obvious commitment to play for us today. I know some others does, but there are a few select ones who clearly don't care about us. Fucking idiots. Not surprising when that someone went off we suddenly played so much better

Its because we had Diaby and Denilson both on at the same time, a recipe for ineptness. I would have risked Song if he was available or taken Denilson off much earlier as he was shocking. Diaby really is brainless at times, his awareness is shocking.

Thats true, but Diaby shouldn't have to keep bombing up to help us get a goal when he is really shit in the final 3rd at times. Rosicky should have started ahead of fucking useless Denilson

Didn't see the first half.

But that was a perfectly good goal by Arshavin. Onside. On top of that the benefit of doubt is supposed to go in the attackers favor, but the linesman still raises his flag for no reason.

It's unrealistic for people to expect us to win every game by several goals with great performances. Each goal, penalty decition...etc is crucial in a sport like football. Denied a goal, a penalty and a red card.

In this league, it's not enough to be better than United. You have to perform to such a level that all the favours United get still can't push them over the line. We've done it in the past and Chelsea have done it more recently. It's a huge task. It's not about being the best team in the league. It's about beeing so much better that the other stuff like Fergie and media influence won't matter.

btw, was it a penalty or a free kick+red card. bramble began pulling arshavin's shirt outside the penalty area, then let go and then pushed him inside the box.

I think his point is that when Chamakh came on we played well. How it relates to my point is beyond me, but anyway it's not a guarantee that it would have worked from the start.

"Least surprising news of the day - the referee, Anthony Taylor, is from Manchester."

Why am i not surprised

Denilson and Diaby lack quality without a doubt but i can still take lack of quality.

Denilson was far too meek today though. He isn't brave enough for this league. He was like a scared little puppy. Ramsey who has broken a leg will go into challenges without any inhibition but Denilson really is too meek.

Apart from him though everyone fought hard, including Diaby who put in some very good tackles.

I think the players gave it their all but they just can't win.

Kel Varnsen wrote:

btw, was it a penalty or a free kick+red card. bramble began pulling arshavin's shirt outside the penalty area, then let go and then pushed him inside the box.

he started tugging outside the box and Arshavin resisted going down and kept going, so advantage played, but then Bramble stumbles and then pushes Arshavin as he's winding up to take the shot....clear penalty and red, shocking refereeing

qs! wrote:

Ricky1985 wrote:

Why do we even bother trying to stand up to United? Everyone wants them to win it anyway.

Those calls would never, ever have happened at Old Trafford. It's infuriating to the point of rage. I'm just so so so so fed up with it.

You know what really got me today. When they got a free out because Shava stood in front of the keeper at a corner and the keeper ran into him. Do we ever get a decision like that in our favour? Absolutely not. We're not playing on a level field.

Or Nasri (and Wilshere, I think) getting booked for talking back to the referee.

Today should have been a hard fought 3 points, the kind of games that champions grind out, and it would have been had we not had two unbelievable decisions go against us.

We cant be expected to play champagne football all the time, especially when we're missing the likes of RvP and Cesc and have to rely on Diaby and Denilson. We did enough to win today and were robbed, simple as that. I'm actually not angry with the players effort today, they all worked hard, even Diaby, just Denilson and his casualness pissed me off but everyone else put a lot into it.

This is tough to take.

Every passing minute makes it worse.

It is easy to say we had a horrid first hour but Sunderland were good in closing us down. They didn't give a single player any space. We would certainly have been better with the absentees but i don't think we would have had too much joy.

No team can keep it up for 90 minutes and once they got tired we just pressed and pressed. We scored a perfect goal, had a stonewall penalty. This is so fucked.

Wenger saying he's disgusted with the decisions today.

I don't expect him to be saying anything else.

He saw his team give all their heart and i think Samir looked like a good captain. It is just so easy to point a finger at the team and say we can only look at ourselves.

If either of those decisions go for us and we go on to win 1-0 everyone would say that is a fighting win which characterises championship winning sides.

Nela wrote:

Didn't see the first half.

But that was a perfectly good goal by Arshavin. Onside. On top of that the benefit of doubt is supposed to go in the attackers favor, but the linesman still raises his flag for no reason.

It's unrealistic for people to expect us to win every game by several goals with great performances. Each goal, penalty decition...etc is crucial in a sport like football. Denied a goal, a penalty and a red card.

In this league, it's not enough to be better than United. You have to perform to such a level that all the favours United get still can't push them over the line. We've done it in the past and Chelsea have done it more recently. It's a huge task. It's not about being the best team in the league. It's about beeing so much better that the other stuff like Fergie and media influence won't matter.

Any kind of a win would have done today.
I don't think anybody would have cared how it came about.

Yes we had a perfectly legitimate goal denied but we only played with a sense of real urgency for the last 20 minutes or so.

If you didn't see the first half you won't have seen how completely and utterly useless Diaby and Denilson were in midfield. They were actually marginally better in the second half.
If you play with that kind of a handicap for over half the game it might just be reducing your chances of winning.

It is about being the best team in the league. All this emphasis on Fergie and media influence is tiresome. It's as if people believe that we have no control over our own destiny.
It's like some kind of self fulfilling prophecy.

To win this league you have drag yourself through and win games on days when you are without your key matching winning players.
You rely on other players to step up to the mark and take on the responsibility. To my eyes we only saw that in the closing 20 minutes or so when Denilson and Diaby were gone and Nasri and Arshavin began to play like men possessed (actually Nasri for longer).
We could have done with that from the beginning.

Desire, fight, controlled anger, an unquenchable will to win and a refusal to take anything less coupled with the ability to deal with setbacks that are inevitable is what makes champions.
Can people honestly say they saw that from all of our players today?

From some most definitely, from others no way.

I agree when it comes to will and determination. More players need to show that. It's one of the reason's Wilshere is such a breath of fresh air. He gives his all on the pitch.

It's such a cliche but if we could bottle Wilshere's spirit or Szczesny's and force it on the likes of weak willed Denilson, Rosicky, Diaby and careless and casual Bendtner we'd be going some way to winning these kind of games.

It gets better, Wilshere has an ankle knock and is out of training on Sunday, will be assessed on Monday according to Wenger.

Against Everton we had to fight the tide of poor officiating to go on and win that game in what was one of my favourite results in the season because of what we had to go through to get there. The words spirit, mental strength, were all applied there and all because the 2 goals we scored were allowed and the ref didn't do anything more crazy like blowing for a non-existant foul in the build-up etc. but on another day if he did do something like that, we could've lost or potentially drawn at best and the team's character would get attacked, all stemming from a poor ref display.

That could apply today aswell, someone will wheel out the old "this team have shown they haven't got what it takes" and so on... if Andrey's goal stood, or we scored the pen, it's very likely floodgates would've opened or Sunderland would feel deflated, and then we'd grab the 3 points, no one would utter a word about the spirit or mental strengths of the side.

We still had that regardless, just not for the 90 mins but we've won many league games in the past where we're not at our 100% flowing best and it will still be enough to get the 3 points. I feel depressed now.

Loyan wrote:

Wenger saying he's disgusted with the decisions today.

About time.

Wilshere has been working his socks off recently, if it wasnt an injury then it'd be fatigue that would sideline him sooner rather than later. He's become such a vital player for us, would be a disaster if he doesnt make tuesday.