Again I will say it, and again y'all won't like it, but if an Arsenal player of his supposed quality (remember we once spoke of him as potential future captain) goes to a club like Bournemouth (no disrespect meant), and is not immediately, consistently their outstandingly best performer, he might as well stay there.

Jack hasn't managed to stand out compared to Surman and Arter. He looks far from a player who is going to break into the Arsenal midfield.

Jack's job this year was to play games and not get injured. The issue of "out shining Surman" or who ever is ridiculous. It's like doubting his talent to begin with. That takes pretending we haven't seen what he can do. I don't buy that at all.

I'm very happy he went to Brnmth, I just want him to play and not get injured. Not looking for .5 assists a game stats, nor goals. Just a healthy ankle. Come back here and start playing. This dude wiped out Xavi and Iniesta when he was 19, this is not lost. Loan. That's all it is. Fine by me.

Bielik reportedly to join Charlton Athletic on loan- Polish press.

Would be good for him.

yuv wrote:

Jack's job this year was to play games and not get injured. The issue of "out shining Surman" or who ever is ridiculous. It's like doubting his talent to begin with. That takes pretending we haven't seen what he can do. I don't buy that at all.

I'm very happy he went to Brnmth, I just want him to play and not get injured. Not looking for .5 assists a game stats, nor goals. Just a healthy ankle. Come back here and start playing. This dude wiped out Xavi and Iniesta when he was 19, this is not lost. Loan. That's all it is. Fine by me.

Someone with a brain :opti:

yuv wrote:

Jack's job this year was to play games and not get injured. The issue of "out shining Surman" or who ever is ridiculous. It's like doubting his talent to begin with. That takes pretending we haven't seen what he can do. I don't buy that at all.

I'm very happy he went to Brnmth, I just want him to play and not get injured. Not looking for .5 assists a game stats, nor goals. Just a healthy ankle. Come back here and start playing. This dude wiped out Xavi and Iniesta when he was 19, this is not lost. Loan. That's all it is. Fine by me.

Why "out shining Surman" issue is ridiculous? As if it is not possible to both stay healthy and show your quality at the same time.

I think no one is doubting Jack's potential, but there are plenty of people doubting a) if he can even reach his level at 19 y/o, b) if that level is actually enough nowadays against 95% of teams.

There's always the possibility that players like Arter are actually too good for Bournemouth. Of course, if Bournemouth actually had proper strikers Jack would reqch double figures in assists easy.

banduan wrote:

There's always the possibility that players like Arter are actually too good for Bournemouth. Of course, if Bournemouth actually had proper strikers Jack would reqch double figures in assists easy.

Its not stopping Stanislas, Fraser, Smith, etc getting assists. Even Afobe has more assists than Jack. As for Arter maybe he is too good for Bournemouth but he's not good enough for Arsenal.

Having a couple of great games at 19 is no guarantee that you are a great player at 25 either. Certainly not with all the injuries he's had.

People are asking very little of Jack. I wanted him to look like a player we'd actually want Arsenal to sign if he wasn't already one of our own. He's been disappointing during this loan. Chambers was doing as well if not better on his loan. This is a very average looking Jack Wilshere we have seen so far.

@bandy - that's not really true, he's not exactly been laying them on a plate. Bournemouth are the 8th highest scorers in the league and have scored just 1 less than United and Everton. His creative influence has been much more subtle, like that of a deeper creative player. That in itself would be fine except he's been playing mostly as an attacking mid so a solitary assist isn't really enough.

People really need to stop obsessing over assists in football.

Agree. Biggus once said as much when comparing Ozil and Hleb.

Assists matter, creativity matters and goals matter. Especially when playing as a number 10.

Assists aren't an obvious measure of creativity. They're a record of whoever touched the ball last before someone else scored a goal. They might coincide in some instances but more often they don't.

Playing as a 10 has no value in itself. It's not describing an actual position on the pitch. It's obvious from watching Bournemouth this season that they don't use their attacking midfielders the way Arsenal would. Jack's a lot deeper in the field because they can't afford him not to be. Bit like Ramsey playing for Wales; just look at any given heatmap and you'll see a pattern that more resembles a central midfielder.

This is a guy who was our player of the season and got universally praised back in 10/11 when he scored 1 league goal and assisted a whooping 3, and people expected him to go to Bournemouth and rack up Özil numbers after a year of absence?

Bit of a staw man argument there, no one has said he needs to be matching Ozil, he needs to climb up higher than the 7th highest at Bournemouth for a start. No one has said he's not been a somewhat of a creative influence either.

Also, his positioning is all his own doing. It's probably the weakest part of his game by a long shot.

I really don't get how anyone can dispute that he should be looking to significantly improve on 0 goals and 1 assist in the second half of the season.

The only thing Jack should be doing as far as I'm concerned is what Eddie Howe asks him to do. Which seems to be exactly what he's doing. We didn't send him to Bournemouth on loan because he needed to prove his class. We sent him out because he needed to prove he can get match fit again.

Agree Klaus on both your points. Jack's game is not about goals and assists, never was and never will be. The most important thing is that he's managed to stay fit and it'll be criminal if we let him leave in the Summer now that he's recuperating.

The most comparable player to Wilshere is Iniesta and if you look at his goals and assists over the years supporting the likes of Henry, Eto'o, MSN etc. you would have to consider him a bog standard player at best.

I understand people's scepticism and cynicism when it comes to Wilshere because it's easy to forget what an absolute diamond of a player he is because it's a long time since he played at his best but he's getting there. If people actually watched Bournemouth instead of evaluating him on his goals/assists maybe they would evaluate him and his future differently.

Xavi reminded us of Wilshere's potential in the Summer when he said a loan move could help Wilshere to become the best midfielder in Europe. He still has time.

Klaus wrote:

Assists aren't an obvious measure of creativity. They're a record of whoever touched the ball last before someone else scored a goal. They might coincide in some instances but more often they don't.

Nonsense. In the vast majority of cases the most creative players have good assist stats.

Anyway this is all a distraction. His overall game has been average and the stats are just a part of that.

Assists don't provide the whole picture regarding creativity. I'd much rather look at the chances created stat to measure his creative ability. He can't control other players' inability to finish off the chances he creates so judging him by his assist stats is quite unfair.

Klaus wrote:

The only thing Jack should be doing as far as I'm concerned is what Eddie Howe asks him to do. Which seems to be exactly what he's doing. We didn't send him to Bournemouth on loan because he needed to prove his class. We sent him out because he needed to prove he can get match fit again.

That's exactly the way I see it.