She definitely stands out in the UK, nobody questioned that. So does Ronnie Unionbuster Reagan's record in the US however, he caused irreperable damage to the American economy both structurally and fiscally, deepened social divide, was behind Iran/Contra and the cocaine flooding into the country in its wake and behind innumerable foreign military operations like funding the Taliban or Al-Qaeda, the support of every anti-Communist dictator there was in the world and many others

Like Huey Freeman said, Ronald Wilson Reagan was the devil. His three names don't have six letters for no reason

You guys seriously arguing over who's the bigger asshat?

Meatwad wrote:

we're not electing trump, but didn't you guys have Tony Abbott as prime minister?

jones wrote:

They did elect Reagan in the past

and he was no worse than any other conservative elected by western democracies (your maggie thatcher's etc and the host of them that australia has had in the past).

Abbott was a joke for a number of reasons, but neither he nor any of the other conservative leaders we have had would come close to Trump with respect to batshit-crazy ideas/policies and complete lack of suitability for public office. 

banduan wrote:

You guys seriously arguing over who's the bigger asshat?

Who's the most progressive / least arsehat-esque is a particularly hilarious form of national pride.

Tonight should be interesting. I'm expecting both of them to be terrible.

Hillary just has no fucking charisma. She's gonna come off like a grumpy old grandmother.

There isn't much Clinton can do. She just needs to play it straight down the middle and hope he fucks up. He might gain traction if he can manage to act like a politician but I doubt he can pull that off. He'd have to do something pretty crazy to lose voters I think, thats probably more likely than him keeping it together.

I think Trump just has to tone down his message 20% and he'll pick up a new wave of voters. Hillary isn't capable of inspiring new voters at this point which leaves her needing to maintain all of her current support AND for Trump to not gain any new votes.

I'm fucking scared

Trump voters don't seem to care about facts anyway, and they certainly don't care about Trump lying pretty much every time he opens his big, ugly gob.

Hillary's best outcome is if Trump says something that is both a) zany/conspiratorial/bizarre and b) not appealing to any large political constituency

If the moderator can get him sidetracked on some Trump U stuff or rehashing the Cruz father thing, I think the above is possible, if not probable

Not sure there is anything that can be defined as a Donald Trump fuck up. On some level it's funny that people are looking forward to this debate as if it's gonna affect anything for Trump. All this political theatre is pointless and useless for trump supporters and that is the point of Trump's rise. He can now afford to tide through with 90 minutes of rhetoric.

Trump univeristy/cruz father all these have been done over with..nobody cares about those i think. Also, the gennifer flowers threat was bloody brilliant from the man. That should warn clinton against trying to play silly games with him. She's just not in his league.

She is not in his league?
He is not even in the ball park.

Hillary has no charisma? News to me.

  1. She does have no charisma
  2. The Flowers thing doesn't play well with women, he's already a well known mysogynist dickhead, it's bad for him to remind people of it
mags wrote:

She is not in his league?

not with the trash talk, no. they tried to silly bait him with the mark cuban thing, he shot back with flowers. Going against the pope and the church lady in flint should've done bad for him with christians but no.
Anyways, bill and melania walked in. I got my popcorn ready, hope it's not the boring Drumpf.

totally agree on his airports point. Airports in US are shit.

Hilary nailed it.
Trump showed he is not prepared to debate, a babbling idiot.

so fucking annoying when neither the moderator nor hillary ask him-- what does your ten year old being good at computers have to do with cyber security?
but just for lols...that was gold.

"It's not nice, I don't deserve that, it's not a nice thing that she's done" 😆

Will be interesting to see how this performance affects the polls tomorrow/ by the end of the week.

1-0 Hillary

arsedoc md wrote:

totally agree on his airports point. Airports in US are shit.

you need to travel to the so-called 3rd world. La Guardia is wonderful in comparison. in Africa, i'd say only the South African and Kenyan airports are better. it's hyperbole, unless your only reference is Middle Eastern/East Asian airports 

Watched the debate and wondered... what has Trump being doing these last 3 months? He looked like a guy who walked into the debate cold. Told numerous lies and was unable to dwell on Hillary's weaknesses - like this ridiculous email server story. Republicans should feel ashamed for having enabled this man.

flobaba wrote:

Will be interesting to see how this performance affects the polls tomorrow/ by the end of the week.

1-0 Hillary

did America really learn anything new here? i doubt it really impacts the polls. i imagine many of his supporters don't care how badly he gets beaten by a corrupt incumbent who has been part of white socio-economic disempowerment. 

I like Oliver. This piece the other day sort of outlines the problem for me; there are people who think Hillary is untrustworthy and lies, but at the same time are totally comfortable not comparing her shit to everything Trump has been up to. There is no comparison to be made really; Trump is infinitely worse, and a lot less trustworthy. Trump supporters just seem unable to comprehend just how terrible he is. 
Oh, and going by everything else that has passed during this election cycle, then Trump can do pretty much whatever during these debates and it will have no bearing on how a lot of people perceive him.

Rex wrote:

I like Oliver. This piece the other day sort of outlines the problem for me; there are people who think Hillary is untrustworthy and lies, but at the same time are totally comfortable not comparing her shit to everything Trump has been up to. There is no comparison to be made really; Trump is infinitely worse, and a lot less trustworthy. Trump supporters just seem unable to comprehend just how terrible he is. 
Oh, and going by everything else that has passed during this election cycle, then Trump can do pretty much whatever during these debates and it will have no bearing on how a lot of people perceive him.

Oliver has been shilling for Hillary since the primaries. He has become a lot less watchable since this election cycle started, he's too bland and reveals nothing interesting in his gags. It's just agreement comedy for middle of the road american "liberals".

The trustworthy issue isn't a matter of degrees. If you don't trust either of them does it really matter who lies more? You are either trustworthy or not. It's sad that the best thing people seem to be able to say about Clinton is she's not as bad as a corrupt, racist reality TV host.

I think it's absolutely a matter of degrees. I'm going to go out on a limb as say all politicians lie, whether it's Trump, Clinton, Sanders or anyone else. You might not trust any of them but in the end one of them is going to look after all your shit so you're going to have to make a choice.

In the end things wont change significantly with either of them in charge. Especially not internationally.

goon wrote:

I think it's absolutely a matter of degrees. I'm going to go out on a limb as say all politicians lie, whether it's Trump, Clinton, Sanders or anyone else. You might not trust any of them but in the end one of them is going to look after all your shit so you're going to have to make a choice.

 I'm going to go out on a limb and say all humans lie.

It'll make a significant difference who takes the Presidency. We shouldn't confuse the character, intentions and abilities of the candidates with the broader social dynamics in contention behind them.

The US administration's already fairly powerless to enact good and far-reaching policy, but the kinds of forces on the move in broader US society will be considerably altered by a Trump victory.

We've just come through a far less polarised election over here, but with similar victimologist white, nationalist racist elements in the mix, and their right wing talking points have dominated public dialogue completely since the result.

Whoever wins in the US, many of the claims and demands that have had a certain shock value during this campaign will be normalised during the next Presidential term. A Trump Presidency will see that process go further and faster.

I disagree. This mentality already exists, Trump and his ilk are just more honest about it. I'd rather see it exposed for what it is than hide behind veiled racist language like "super predators". Its much easier to fight racism when its overt.

flobaba wrote:

Will be interesting to see how this performance affects the polls tomorrow/ by the end of the week.

1-0 Hillary

Polls seem to be split from what I can see, I'm gonna call it a draw based on the reactions I'm reading today.

Qwiss! wrote:

In the end things wont change significantly with either of them in charge. Especially not internationally.

well probably not internationally, but there will be significant change either to the left or right based on who is elected and that's because of the kind of federal judges and supreme court justices they'll appoint. significant change in america comes from the courts so who's doing the appointing will definitely impact the country. the stop and frisk that trump has a hard-on for is gone not because of the benevolence of a "good liberal" like de Blasio, but because a federal judge ruled it unconstitutional. 

domestic takes up 95% of my voting concern.

Qwiss! wrote:

I disagree. This mentality already exists, Trump and his ilk are just more honest about it. I'd rather see it exposed for what it is than hide behind veiled racist language like "super predators". Its much easier to fight racism when its overt.

This is a strange attitude when you've got Marine Le Pen a firm contender for the next French President and so on.

You don't fight racism by having a massive national campaign full of overt racism and then letting the more racist candidate get elected—this, now, is where you fight racism.

There is no choice in this election that counts as a blow to racism. The Clintons have done more to fuck over black and latino Americans than Trump could ever dream of.

Qwiss! wrote:

There is no choice in this election that counts as a blow to racism. The Clintons have done more to fuck over black and latino Americans than Trump could ever dream of.

I'm not into lesser evils either, but truth is that the good ole boys, Klansmen, open carry nuts, anti-immigration and law and order crowd view Trump as "their" candidate and will consider it "their" historical moment if he wins. So unfortunately there is a difference.

Qwiss! wrote:

There is no choice in this election that counts as a blow to racism. The Clintons have done more to fuck over black and latino Americans than Trump could ever dream of.

my time here isn't up yet, i still have to live here. there is a difference. i'd rather deal with racists who lash out because they feel threatened than racists who feel emboldened.

Watched the whole debate now. Trump was nowhere near as 'entertaining' as I hoped he would be. Plenty idiotic though, but I doubt any of the people planning to vote for him changed their minds.