Burnwinter wrote:

The trick with Jon's resurrection will be what he's had to give up—similar to what happened with Beric Dondarrion in the books perhaps?

Assuming it's not Azor Ahai's spirit who comes back in Jon's skin, of course.

I've always wondered about the finer details of the reincarnation thing. Is it like a fusion between two souls or would one literally be replaced by someone else? All these false Azors throughout the story have always presumed, perhaps naively, that they would maintain their own memories and personalities if they were to turn into the legendary hero. But none of them have seemingly stopped and wondered why they have no memories from Azor's time and life if they were the chosen ones. How can they be Azor if they have no recollection of it?

Rhaegar Targaryen thought he was Azor based on the circumstances of his birth. Melisandre thought the same about Stannis because he was born and bred at Castle Black. Both Rhaegar and Melisandre tried to make their own circumstances fit the legend from that point on. Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna (and thus set in motion the events depicted in the books) because the prophecy said that Azor would have a third child but his wife was unable to bear any more kids. Melisandre held a ceremony declaring Stannis to be reborn under the stars and literally made sure that he drew a sword from the fire to defeat his foes. They basically imitated a legend rather than living it.

Jon is the first character in the story where it has been hinted several times that he has been waiting to become someone else in both a symbolic and a physical sense. His suspected inheritance as part Targaryen and part Stark makes him the embodiment of fire and ice, but his face has also been shown in the fires of R'hllor. He has dreamt about the flaming sword. I've always suspected that when he did come back to life it wouldn't be as himself. Not entirely anyway. What would be the point of the resurrection otherwise?

Nice post. Hadn't really thought about it, but I think it's rather likely that Jon will turn out to be either fatally cursed by his resurrection, or spiritually fused with Azor Ahai—which would be a fairly standard trope of the genre.

The series has a bit of a problem with its major antagonist at this point. The white walkers aren't interesting enough. If one of the heroes turned evil that'd help with that problem.

Yeah, I keep hoping we will learn more about the Night King this season, ideally through the turning of a major player. So far the big perpetrator of evil is the nature of man itself. Saying that absolute power corrupts absolutely is all good and well, but it's not exactly the type of enemy you can defeat, nor is it great storytelling to point it out.

Well, the White Walkers are the existential threat, but the series has provided many other, more minor antagonists who are personable: Littlefinger, Joffrey, Ramsey (and Roose), Viserys, etc etc. 

This isn't so much a spoiler as it is a guess/prediction but I reckon it's pretty nailed on that the White Walkers aren't as evil as they seem and will represent the requisite "balance" needed in the Universe to be the counterpart of dragons/Rhlor (basically the titular fire). This will play in with the Starks and the North somewhat ie. Jon being part Fire and Ice as Azor Ahai, the entire Bloodraven/Bran arc being connected to the Old Gods and therefore the titular Ice. That's not how I would write the ending but I think its par for how Martin thinks.

Thought the part about Tyrion unchaining the dragons was a bit of a stretch.

Glad they spared us the boredom of the Khaleesi storyline for at least a week.

Jens wrote:

Biggus wrote:

Euron his brother.

My knowledge of the books is getting hazy but Balon was not the last survivor of the War of the Five Kings as he claimed, that had to be Joffrey correct? They have been waiting a long time to pull the trigger on this storyline.

No, the last survivor was the One True King Stannis Baratheon, [font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm. And still actually alive in the books.[/font]

Just to be clear.. Not that there's much left, but this thread should be free from book spoilers, shouldn't it?

Shady wrote:

Jens wrote:

My knowledge of the books is getting hazy but Balon was not the last survivor of the War of the Five Kings as he claimed, that had to be Joffrey correct? They have been waiting a long time to pull the trigger on this storyline.

No, the last survivor was the One True King Stannis Baratheon, [font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms, and Protector of the Realm. And still actually alive in the books.[/font]

Ah of course, that's on oversight on my part.

Thinking about it Stannis may even be alive on the show for all we know. Did the Boltons ever mention him after they crushed his army? I guess it's a missing presumed dead kind of thing.

Stannis is as dead as it gets. Brienne beheaded him and Ramsay confirmed it by telling his father that he had found the body in the next episode.

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Yeah Balon was offed way earlier in the books.

Glad they got the Jon thing out of the way quickly. I was worried they'd drag that out for much of the season.

Roose getting offed was a bit weak.

It was a mistake imo, aside from the fact that a character like Roose would never have been as trusting a father as say Ned, Ramsey was an interesting villain but now he has become too one dimensional.

I agree that they seem to have taken some of the criticism from last season that TV has to be faster moving than books.

@ Klaus, they will have to keep some of Jons personality otherwise we will never know who his parents were.
Speaking of which- With the introduction of Lyanna and the fire 'n ice thing it seems pretty nailed on to be her and Rhaegar.

Although Beric seems to remember plenty but Cathlyn Stark (in the books) seems to not remember much except revenge, it may have something to do with the length of time dead the amount of times dead and the trauma of the manner of death.

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

Just to be clear.. Not that there's much left, but this thread should be free from book spoilers, shouldn't it?

I think at this point the show is starting to deviate pretty heavily from the books. Obviously the new book isn't out yet, but I'd be pretty shocked if the Dorne arc for example was remotely to what we'll see in the books. The Bolton's arc is already very different, and obviously several threads in the books haven't even been included in the show. 

I'd also wager that Ghost's part in Jon's resurection, rather than the ambiguous/seemingly Melisandre depiction in the show, is made a lot clearer in the books

Oh my god Jon isn't dead anymore. What a twist!!!

The Jesus metaphor is complete.

Yeah. Tyrion scene with dragons was good. I haven't read the books, so for me it just threw up a lot of questions about who or what half man might be.

On the story: I wonder if the Sand Snakes killing of Doran and Trystane was the end of that storyline. Surely, Jamie must want revenge but those characters seem to hold little value beyond that at this point. Additionally, what will the plan be with the isolated characters: Tyrion, Daenerys, and Jorah. Something needs to happen to quickly bring them into one of the sotrylines, as their threads are becoming a souce of tedium now. Same with Arya and her faceless men.

Claudius wrote:

On the story: I wonder if the Sand Snakes killing of Doran and Trystane was the end of that storyline. Surely, Jamie must want revenge but those characters seem to hold little value beyond that at this point.

Dorne are definitely marching on King's Landing, or else nothing that have happened up to now would have made any sense. Prince Doran was the only one who thought it too costly to go to war with the Lannisters, thats why they killed him.

What can a bunch of spear chucking turbanhrads do against Kings Landing?

Those characters are only useful for stepping up the sex appeal of the program.