Gazza M wrote:its a shame alot of the other shit beyond the wall was dragged out, like the mance rayder stuff, while the sequence involving more interesting characters is over so quickly. i would've gladly watched half a season of these dudes getting into shenanigans beyond the wall
Agreed, and it all comes down to a lack of planning. They were still probably banking on more book material being added back in season 2/3.
Quincy Abeyie wrote:Claudius wrote:That whole sequence could've been four to five days, from the point that Gendry was dispatched. Not sure if that is completely unreasonable. The men had some swanky backpacks, probably filled with meats, water and breads. They should've been able to survive that long while Gendry ran back. The difficulty with these episodes is that a lot of on time is spent on things that don't take too long, and very little time is spent on boring long sea journeys or dragon flights spanning the entire continent
That doesn't justify it for me. If they were there for five days and it doesn't look that way to the viewers, that's on the creators. They have the responsibility to show that. If they can't find a better way, just make someone literally say it.
How do we know how far they got before Gendry had to run back. Didn't seem very far to me. Plus they were searching, not going in a straight line.
On the trip from Dragonstone to beyond the wall I don't really have an indepth knowledge of the distances involved but I did see some maps super-imposed over a picture of Europe and it looked like the wall was at the England - Scotland border while Dragonstone was in the middle of France. Thats not a 5 day trip by air (admittedly I have no real idea how fast carrier ravens fly).
Quincy Abeyie wrote:Claudius wrote:That whole sequence could've been four to five days, from the point that Gendry was dispatched. Not sure if that is completely unreasonable. The men had some swanky backpacks, probably filled with meats, water and breads. They should've been able to survive that long while Gendry ran back. The difficulty with these episodes is that a lot of on time is spent on things that don't take too long, and very little time is spent on boring long sea journeys or dragon flights spanning the entire continent
That doesn't justify it for me. If they were there for five days and it doesn't look that way to the viewers, that's on the creators. They have the responsibility to show that. If they can't find a better way, just make someone literally say it.
You're right in that they made a mistake here. They could've shown some sunrises and sunsets to really bring home the point that these men are on that rock for an extended length of time. A 30 second sequence of this and maybe Dany riding her dragon at highspeed over the continent (budget-permitting) might have really given the viewer an appreciation of the time taken. I'm not as bothered by the jetpacking as many others are so I typically let it go. A more worrying trend is the deus ex machina.
If you think about the last two battles
I'm sure for most major battles I can go back and find many more of these moments. They just feel rather frequent, to the point that we expect them and, thus, most major characters don't really feel at risk right now.
We are talking about fucking sword and sorcery fantasy here and we are in the 7th season. I don't understand why people expect more from Game of Thrones. I'm just thankful I don't have to watch much more of people kicking the can down a road to waste time while we wait for the end.
Qwiss! wrote:We are talking about fucking sword and sorcery fantasy here and we are in the 7th season. I don't understand why people expect more from Game of Thrones. I'm just thankful I don't have to watch much more of people kicking the can down a road to waste time while we wait for the end.
LOL. I know exactly what you mean. The big furore everywhere today is that the undead Night King threw that ice javelin so far to hit Viserion. I'm thinking, listen to yourselves you numbskulls, you're complaining about the distance that an undead bloke threw an ice javelin to bring down a dragon. Fek!
Isn't that suspention of disbelief though? It's a sword and sorcery show, but that doesn't mean you can't be annoyed by other things more probable than dragons. I'd be annoyed if Tyrion showed up in a car to save Jon, for example. I haven't even thought about the spear thing, because I have no reason to believe that was a normal spear.
Qwiss! wrote:Quincy Abeyie wrote:That doesn't justify it for me. If they were there for five days and it doesn't look that way to the viewers, that's on the creators. They have the responsibility to show that. If they can't find a better way, just make someone literally say it.
How do we know how far they got before Gendry had to run back. Didn't seem very far to me. Plus they were searching, not going in a straight line.
On the trip from Dragonstone to beyond the wall I don't really have an indepth knowledge of the distances involved but I did see some maps super-imposed over a picture of Europe and it looked like the wall was at the England - Scotland border while Dragonstone was in the middle of France. Thats not a 5 day trip by air (admittedly I have no real idea how fast carrier ravens fly).
It wasn't very far, the group was trapped close to the weirwood where Jon and Sam took their nightswatch vows (the same arrow shaped mountain is visible and seems to be at a similar distance).
Dragonstone is roughly 2000 miles from Eastwatch, Ravens have an average flight speed of 50mph so it would take 40 hours of non stop travel time to reach its destination. A dragon's flight speed is obviously unknown, but it's probably faster than a raven, let's say 20 to 30 hours of flight time.
All in all it's probably a 4 to 5 day wait in total. D&D show the passage of time via Gendry's run and we see 2 (I think) day/night cycles on the little island.
I missed the day and night cycles. I'm gonna assume a dragon is as fast as a Ryanair flight. So 5-6 hours. So 2ish days. Seems reasonable.
I'm going to assume a dragon can fly as fast as it fucking well wants, thank you very much.
Daz wrote:I'm going to assume a dragon can fly as fast as it fucking well wants, thank you very much.
No way man. Zombie ice kings can throw spears as far as they want but fast ravens and not having screen text telling you what day it is, that's show breaking.
Holy shit, the Dragon being revived at the end was chilling. I thought the white walkers and the army of the dead didn't seem particularly dangerous until the Night King took out a dragon but having now acquired one themselves they look formidable.
John delaying getting on the Dragon to instead take out a few of the dead was a little stupid and a little out of character. If they wanted him to get stranded they could have made it a little more convincing.
Great episode all in all. I've a feeling Cersei won't give a shit about the White Walkers and will instead focus on how she can use that to her advantage. Hope Tyrion doesn't keep getting played.
Qwiss! wrote:Daz wrote:I'm going to assume a dragon can fly as fast as it fucking well wants, thank you very much.
No way man. Zombie ice kings can throw spears as far as they want but fast ravens and not having screen text telling you what day it is, that's show breaking.
As I said, I'd be annoyed if I saw Tyrion driving around in a car even if zombie ice kings are less realistic, so it really hasn't got anything to do with that. You could say "zombie ice kings exist, but X happening isn't okay? LOL" to pretty much anything.
Well if you factor the dragon's wingspan against the comparative size of a raven's, and then further account for decrease in stamina relative to weight, multiplied by the increase in strength, you'd have to assume that life back in Game of Thrones times was a lot more brutal than it is now, and therefore, its all completely realistic.
Wonder what dead dragon fire breath smells like.
dead dragons don't breathe fire
Ignoring the ridiculousness of the time travel, why did the Night King not kill Drogon that was right there in front of him instead of the dragon flying around. Also, dragons are meant to be relatively smart and yet all they did was fly around burning random wights instead of attacking the Night King and the other leaders of the army. It should have been obvious from up there that the small group of men so clearly distinct from everybody else were the leaders and yet they just let them be. It's hard to ignore these things.
Yeah the show would ended if the Night King killed Drogon right there and took Dany with him or if the dragons killed the Night King when he was just standing there with his undead posse but it's the shows responsibility to work around that by not presenting these options in the first place. All of this on the back of the stupidest fucking plan ever conceived. I hope the books go in a different direction.
Tambourine Man wrote:Also, dragons are meant to be relatively smart and yet all they did was fly around burning random wights instead of attacking the Night King and the other leaders of the army.
Can dragons hurt white walkers? They walk straight through fire.
Claudius wrote:dead dragons don't breathe fire
Maybe ice then?
I quite liked the episode (all silly bits aside) and particularly the Hound's verbal smack down of Gendry near the start. Probs my favourite character.
Can't wait for #CLEGANEBOWL next week, really think it's going to happen.
Regarding the NK not going for Drogon, it's likely that he's a greenseer and saw that he would kill Viserion so he aimed for Viserion first. Even without greenseeing you can justify him going for Viserion. Drogon was stationary and wasn't a threat whereas Viserion was mid turn and about to come straight towards them.
Quincy Abeyie wrote:As I said, I'd be annoyed if I saw Tyrion driving around in a car even if zombie ice kings are less realistic, so it really hasn't got anything to do with that. You could say "zombie ice kings exist, but X happening isn't okay? LOL" to pretty much anything.
Nope thats not what anyone said and your car analogy is nonsense. They didn't show you enough day to night transitions, show ruined.
