Best player ever?: Page 14 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Best player ever?

Savz

The worst argument I've ever heard is that "La lifa is easier to do it in, so Messi isn't the best ever"

Erm... this isn't some chump doing it in La Liga and falling short in Europe.

He's won 4 of the last 10 champions League.

Best of all time.

Sicario

You mean 3. He was no where in 2006.

QuincyAbeyie

That's not how it works, Sicario. He started four games, came on in two more, got a goal and an assist. That he's won 4 of the last 10 CLs isn't an opinion, but a fact.

Sicario

How much tangible difference did he actually make to that CL side in 2006? Does anyone remember what he did in that campaign? If Messi did not feature at all that year would Barcs still have won the CL? Let's not give total credit for something he didn't even play a major part in.

It's like saying Wilshere won us the FA cup in 2015.

QuincyAbeyie

First of all, Wilshere played one match. Second, he didn't say Messi won them the Champions League. He said that Messi has won the Champions League four times, which is still a fact. You both changed the wording and used someone who played six times fewer matches than Messi as an example. Poor attempt at exaggeration to rationalize what you're saying.

If we win the FA cup this year Ospina will have won it, that does not mean "he's won us the FA cup". Big difference.

Biggus

Even Djimi Traore has won the CL.

Jus' sayin'

Irishgunner

Sicario wrote:
How much tangible difference did he actually make to that CL side in 2006? Does anyone remember what he did in that campaign? If Messi did not feature at all that year would Barcs still have won the CL? Let's not give total credit for something he didn't even play a major part in.

It's like saying Wilshere won us the FA cup in 2015.

Didn't he destroy Chelsea that year?

Tactics

Clrnc wrote:
Gurgen wrote:
They still had Thuram, Blanc, Desailly, Deschamps and Vieira, all formidable players at the time. Zidane certainly didn't do it all alone.

Vieira hardly had any minutes in the tournament. Only started in 1 match and made just 1 further sub app.

Most of those players mentioned actually carried Zidane in that tournament. He only showed up in the final but was living up to his bottler tag before that (and was widely criticised).

About 20 years later, it's now being said he carried the French team - hilarious!

Players like Djorkaeff, Karembeu (had a top season with Madrid) are hardly mentioned despite playing better than Zidane in the tournament.

Bold Tone

You are right about the contribution of the other players being forgotten.
You mention offensive players but i think the defensive capabilities of that team are what carried them to glory.
Even then i still think France only won it because Ronaldo suffered that panic attack or whatever it was that turned him into a shell.
Good example of the collective being better than the individual.
Maradona is the only player, i think, won his country the WC.
Also i know he played for the enemy but George Best was right up there.

jones

I understand why the wide masses have such an interest in the WC but surely for people who have more than a casual fleeting interest in football they'd realise that it's hardly the indicator for quality? If Maradona was born a couple hundred kilometers to the North or West in Paraguay or Chile he'd have never got close to win the WC.

Zidane was one of my heroes back in the day but I reckon Ronaldo is the one I'd list straight after Messi on my all time list, such a shame that he hit his peak at 21 because of injuries.

Bold Tone

Zidane is still one of my favourite players and i followed him closely since his time at Juve but no way was he better than real Ron in his prime.
There is, however, something about that lethargic elegance that makes the difficult seem so simple that makes me like him, Cruyff, Riquelme, Hagi, Ozil and even our very own Wilshere or Leicester's Mahrez. Same reason i liked Le Tissier and even "the magic man" as he was the contrast in that team.
They may not be the most effective players but i simply enjoyed/enjoy watching them.

Any excuse to quote Jorge Valdano on Riquelme:
"If we have to travel from point A to point B, everyone would take the six-lane highway and get there as quickly as possible. Everyone, except Riquelme. He would would choose the winding mountain road, that takes six hours, but that fills your eyes with scenes of beautiful landscapes."

jones

Yeah I understand where you're coming from. The one player in that vein I'd list in front of everyone of that list would be Iniesta, he's the epitome of that "lethargic elegance" imo.

Burnwinter

"Kinetic economy"

Biggus

I saw Zidane take a high ball moving fast on the tip of his toe and kill it dead and for once I was stuck for words.

QuincyAbeyie

What about when you saw this

dreamlord

Le me in the Best player ever thread when a wild Danny Welbeck video appears.

Burnwinter

🙂 Fuck that was a great moment though. Back when we could still hope. 🙁

Welbnaldo. Welbadona. Riquwelbme. Le Welbzier.

Rex

What the hell is Matthew fucking LeTissier doing in a conversation about the greats?!

Irishgunner

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
What about when you saw this

😆

MistaT

Bold Tone wrote:
Any excuse to quote Jorge Valdano on Riquelme:
"If we have to travel from point A to point B, everyone would take the six-lane highway and get there as quickly as possible. Everyone, except Riquelme. He would would choose the winding mountain road, that takes six hours, but that fills your eyes with scenes of beautiful landscapes."

A beautiful quote - thanks!

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