Coquelin has some very good qualities but his limitations in our passing game are significant. He should be a tactical selection. As we saw last season, when you have defensive/midfield players who struggle to advance the ball consistently under pressure (Szczesny, Gibbs, Mertesacker, Sagna, Wilshere, Cazorla, Flamini) you can get punished playing our style.

innervisionscm wrote:
Herbas wrote:

How is Gundogan defensively? Would Ramsey and Gundogan midfield basis be secure enough?

Gündogan puts in a shift defensively but I too am curious whether he can be play a pivot for us. He typically plays next to Sahin/Kehl/etc but I think he could learn the position.

I think Sahin is the one we should get ideally, but his body seems a bit fucked over by injuries now. Not sure he'll ever find his way back (he's in the same boat as Gündogan in that sense). Frightening potential though. The player he was four years ago would have walked into practically every team, but he chose to move to the one club that didn't appreciate his talents.

I'd love to take a punt on Gündogan for anything below £25 million though. The guy is a proper footballer.

Sahin is a dated midfielder. His touch and agility got found out in the prem

Gundogan though is a brilliant footballer and would instantly be our best midfielder

Gundogan isn't better than Ramsey. He is more consistent still, when he isn't injured, but there is no way he has the highs that Ramsey has.

He's better than Ramsey. Far more intelligent and less reliant on having an elite engine

...and far better on the ball. Remember him just completely destroying Real Madrid a few years ago. Gundogan is the player Wilshere should and could have become.

Klaus wrote:
innervisionscm wrote:

Gündogan puts in a shift defensively but I too am curious whether he can be play a pivot for us. He typically plays next to Sahin/Kehl/etc but I think he could learn the position.

I think Sahin is the one we should get ideally, but his body seems a bit fucked over by injuries now. Not sure he'll ever find his way back (he's in the same boat as Gündogan in that sense). Frightening potential though. The player he was four years ago would have walked into practically every team, but he chose to move to the one club that didn't appreciate his talents.

Wasn't Sahin shite for Liverpool though?

He was terrible, but he arrived injured after playing like five games in 18 months, and Rodgers used him as a winger or a playmaker.

Imagine if our loan deal for Sahin went through...

Anyway for what its worth, Gundogan is potentially a better player than Sahin

Rex wrote:

Gundogan isn't better than Ramsey. He is more consistent still, when he isn't injured, but there is no way he has the highs that Ramsey has.

Completely different kind of players, Ramsey is a box to box player whereas Gundogan can play that but also excels sitting deeper and distributing the ball.  That is something Ramsey does not excel at, if we had a prime or better version of Arteta we can get away with it but we don't.  We can't control games like we should and need to address that.  Cazorla has filled in fine but he does not excel in that position nor is he a dominant player who against a top side will run that midfield.  Coquelin is excellent at breaking up play and playing the simple pass but we need something better.  

Clrnc wrote:

Imagine if our loan deal for Sahin went through...

Anyway for what its worth, Gundogan is potentially a better player than Sahin

Thanks to that cunt Mourinho who wouldn't loan us Sahin. That guy's dislike of this club is pathetic but in a way I do quite like that fact that we piss him off this much!

Sahin deal would have changed things a lot, good point.

It's a bit funny to read these things about Ramsey. My view is that for most of last season he bossed midfields up and down the country. He also scored a bit.

Gundogan is excellent, can play alongside either Ramsey or Coquelin while still being a unique player in his own right. Rather him than another like for like signing.

Gundogan has almost always had another player next to him who does the heavy lifting when it comes to defending.

Yeah, but some talk as if he could play instead of Coquelin. The truth is that he has for most of his rise to prominence had either Kehl or Bender to do most of the dirty work for him. I am certain we would take a step back from the balance that now is in the team if we tried to replace Coquelin with Gundogan. It isn't Ramsey we need another version of ffs! We need a player for when Coquelin can't play or is out of form.

It is funny that we are on the mother of runs, Coquelin is universally hailed as a big contributor of turning our season around - and all of a sudden we don't need that kind of player anymore. To me, that just doesn't make sense at all. If anything, it shows that we need one more Coquelin in the squad, because he is the only of his kind the way things stand.

Funny you should wonder about that Rex. It's similar to the way you persistently insist you prefer Welback to Giroud even though it's obvious the Frenchman is the key to balance and effectiveness in our attack.

People just prefer a certain style (or mold of player), and want to see it implemented without giving much consideration to how it might adversely affect the team.

I like Gundogan.

But really, massive gamble right?

We should go for a powerhouse who can compete with Coquelin and do a job in Ramsey's position when needed. I would rather sign a guy like Matuidi instead of Gundogan.