Claudius wrote:

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

Messi takes on players far more than Ronaldo. And he gets on the end of things as much as Ronaldo, it's just that he does everything else too. It used to be a competition, but nowadays it's not even close. Even the Man United supporters have accepted it, it's just Real supporters left. Bergkamp/van Persie is a very good shout, General.

you're dismissing a guy who over the last couple of years has scored at an unprecedented rate in history. not even close is hyperbole. it's really a preference thing between the two. numbers don't lie. not even close is Messi vs Giroud

Numbers doesn't lie, so if two forwards score a similar amount, it can' be a huge gap between them? Henry v Nistelrooy? Aguero v Kane?

Quincy Abeyie wrote:

Claudius wrote:

you're dismissing a guy who over the last couple of years has scored at an unprecedented rate in history. not even close is hyperbole. it's really a preference thing between the two. numbers don't lie. not even close is Messi vs Giroud

Numbers doesn't lie, so if two forwards score a similar amount, it can' be a huge gap between them? Henry v Nistelrooy? Aguero v Kane?

Horsehead outscored Henry once in the league in the 5 years he was here that too by one goal when he took some ridiculous number of penalties.

And that season Henry was still much better than him.

Yes he won player of the year and got 20 assists in the league.

Iniesta got something like 5 assists and scored very little the season he was top 3 in Ballon d'Or. If you are trying to say that we can't look beyond goals and assists to judge a player, there's no discussion to be had.

If you watch Barcelona you will also notice that Messi is as close to playing like a midfielder as he is to playing as a forward.

Erm I just agreed with your statement that Henry had a better season than Van Nistelrooy.

What's with all the anger?

Do you need an argument for everything?

It seemed to me like you said the reason Henry was better was that he had more assists, hence making football all about goals and assists. If I was mistaken, good.

I am not angry at all.

Ronaldo is nowhere near as good a footballer as Messi is. He is keeping up when it comes to scoring, which is exceptional in itself, but at everything else he is as far behind as every other player in the world. I think it pisses Ronaldo off no end too that despite everything he does he will never, ever be regarded as the best player in the world for this era.

That suggests that Ronaldo's a bog standard footballer, a journeyman pro who scores 40 goals per season.
As an assessment of his ability as a footballer it ignores a lot about him.

I agree, there's a considerable gap between Ronaldo and every other player in the world. But equally, there's a gap between Ronaldo and Messi as well. Ronaldo has closed that gap in the past two years but when Messi's playing at his best, there really isn't even a debate to be had.

The tragedy is Ronaldo was a much better player in 2008 and while I think he's become a better goal scorer now, he was far more rounded a player back then. Or rather, the role he was given in the team allowed him to be a more complete performer.

Ronaldo has upped his scoring in the last 3 seasons to Messi's rate, but that's about it. His vision is mediocre whereas Messi's is top notch. Ronaldo's passing execution is average (based on the few times he actually tries to pass the ball), whereas Messi's is top notch. Messi controls the tempo of games, but Ronaldo does not. Messi is the main orchestrator of attacking phases, whereas Ronaldo is almost always the beneficiary of someone else's work.

Personally, I don't think Ronaldo is even in the same stratosphere as Messi as a footballer.

That's absurd. Ronaldo's wing play is extremely high quality, granted he doesn't dictate the game like Messi but his ability in all aspects of the final third is certainly better than everyone else bar one or two others. To call it 'average' is so far off the mark that I actually had to re-read your post to make sure you were being serious.

He runs really fast, with and without the ball, he shoots very hard and accurate. Those, his finishing, his reading of where the ball is going to end up, and the timing of his runs - I'd say he is world class in those aspects, but that's about it. Ronaldo dominates opponents mostly because of his immense physical attributes. There is no subtlety to his game. He is a nuke where Messi is a smart bomb...

Touch, movement, aerial ability, dribbling ability?

And crossing, ball control, free kicks and first touch. Never mind his consistency.

Free kicks, really? Even their own fans admit those are pretty bad. His dribbling ability used to be world class. Either it isn't anymore, or he doesn't use it.

Messi's first touch has no parallel. No xavi,iniesta, no nobody. No ronaldinho, no nobody.ball is glued to his feet however hard you pass it to him,i think he has a socket in his leg and an extra joint inn his ankle. Nah, I'm just being silly. But maybe he does.

Even at scoring goals he isn't as good as Messi, no chance. Messi has as many goals as Ronaldo this season playing effectively as a CM, when he was playing as a CF (or whatever you'd call it) two years ago he averaged two goals a game ffs.

Dribbling and close control are the only attributes in Messi's game I find better than Ronaldo's. Attributes which are closely related to his small stature and lower centre of gravity.

In most other aspects, I find them equally matched. I think Ronaldo is better at getting himself into goal scoring positions, heading and has more power and directness to his game.