Roberto Martinez: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Roberto Martinez

Rex

Clearing out the older players just weeks after getting there? Which manager actually does that? Pellegrini didn't do a clear-out, neither did Moron. In fact, Moron hasn't ever done that as far as I can remember. Heck, even Wenger didn't do it when he arrived. I am sure he wanted rid of the old back 4, but did what most managers actually do - he gave them a season to prove themselves.

Honestly, it is THIS summer which will show what Moyes is made of, and he has been helped by players like Giggs, Evra, Vidic and Ferdinand all being on outgoing contracts. He could have renewed those contracts of course, which would have been hilarious, but it is a massive help getting rid of them this easily.

Sure, Moyes has performed quite a bit below par with the squad he has, but I certainly would have been VERY surprised if he had done a clear out like that last summer.

Biggus

Claudius wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
The true test of Martinez will come next season when he experiences the UCL.

😆

😆 Are you Dules in disguise Clrnc?

Jed

😆

Gunner89

Nobody is laughing now

Rex

He thoroughly spanked Wenger tactically. That seems to be the norm these days though, so it may not say too much about his pedigree as a manager.

est

I didn't think Everton were particularly impressive.

Makes it even more embarrassing for us though.

Biggus

Look people these are the facts-
We are Arsenal we deserve the best manager available.
We are controlled by a bunch of wankers who know nothing about football and rely on Wenger for everything, when he goes he'll tell them who to appoint- Probably one of his weird obscure friends.
The board are so cheap they will probably just appoint Steve Bould.

Rex

Everton's plan was brilliant for playing against us, and they were very good at executing that plan IMO.

Biggus

As you say- Any decent team with a tactically aware manager.......

Rex

We have done well when Wenger seems to have specifically made a point of being more defensive though. I think that was the case at Bayern away, Dortmund away, Man U at home, and Man City at home (first half mainly). That should be our default mode for most away matches though, and it clearly isn't. It just seems too much for him to combine the defensive solidity while also posing a potent attacking threat when playing better teams.

ludovicvanzis

Too much is being made of tactics. You generally win or lose games because of how sharp your players are individually. Against Everton our players were bricking it playing another big away game and were terrible so we lost.

Tony Montana

ludovic van zis wrote:
Too much is being made of tactics. You generally win or lose games because of how sharp your players are individually. Against Everton our players were bricking it playing another big away game and were terrible so we lost.

So it's not really Wenger's fault.

When we win of course he will be lauded.

ludovicvanzis

You can blame Wenger for not dropping Mertesacker in January. Or for selling Gervinho without replacing him.

The first one is a critical Wenger flaw that his haters have never caught on to: He stops being proactive when the team is doing well.

Klaus

ludovic van zis wrote:
The first one is a critical Wenger flaw that his haters have never caught on to: He stops being proactive when the team is doing well.

That's spot on. It's the main problem I have with him. You almost wished we had lost a couple of back to back games in january to force his hand in the transfer market.

JazzG

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2014/04/07/everton-3-0-arsenal-everton-maintain-their-challenge-for-fourth-place/

The video and article showing how he outsmarted us on the day and we had no response to it.

ludovic van zis wrote:
The first one is a critical Wenger flaw that his haters have never caught on to: He stops being proactive when the team is doing well.

That is why he never was able to hit the heights as a manager that he was capable of, always been a reactive manager. On the other hand Fergie had money to spend but made sure he kept every single one of his players on their toes and if he wanted a player he'd overpay to get him in. He didn't care if he overpaid, if he wanted a player he made sure he got him. Nobody cares that he wasted money on Berbatov or Veron, shit like that happens but you could see Wenger not sleeping at night over something like that.

Wenger liked his tag of being a bargain hunter and made sure he would never overpay for a player. Too many times we have been left looking like fucking mugs because of our antics. Funnily enough look at our dealing with Liverpool, tried to get Alonso and Liverpool would of sold for £15m but we fucked them around and left it too late, he suddenly looked a player worth twice that. Then again last summer, we should of put up an extra £10m and Liverpool would of sold him to us, again we fucked about and now he looks a player worth a world record fee. All because the manager doesn't have enough conviction to just the fucking players he wants.

Rex

ludovic van zis wrote:
The first one is a critical Wenger flaw that his haters have never caught on to: He stops being proactive when the team is doing well.

Who are these people who haven't 'caught on'? I think most on here were pretty adamant we needed reinforcements in January waaaaay back in the season for instance, even though we were doing well.

Bosscielny

He's talking about dropping Mertesacker.

ludovicvanzis

@[deleted]
I wasn't talking about transfers. Transfers involve many external factors, happen away from our eyes and in general seem luck based.

I'm talking about what Wenger actually does with the team, stuff we can see. When we're in a pinch he is, in my opinion, brilliant. Remember when he brought Benayoun in out of nowhere for the Spurs game? He tries different things and they almost always work.

When we're doing well however he's very afraid of disturbing the team. Which i get. I mean, the worst thing a manager can do is make his team play worse by interfering and it's very easy to make unecessary changes when you make changes often. You at least keep performances steady and you're doing a decent job. But in the few times we've genuinely challenged for the title in the past 10 years we've needed Wenger to take risks and be brilliant like he can be but instead he just played it safe. We've never been favorites in the past 10 years but we could have nicked it maybe once if he took some risks.

Rex

I see what you mean. I still disagree though! 🙂
Wenger relying on his senior players down the stretch is what he has always done, and there are plenty of us who have been on his back for it over the years. There are also many who have called out for changes in the team, despite us doing well, to rest players and keep more players in the mix. He also often forces himself to rely on too few players by always leaving us short somewhere. For instance, the only reason he has had to play Giroud too much is because he fucked up last summer.

Biggus

ludovic van zis wrote:
The first one is a critical Wenger flaw that his haters have never caught on to: He stops being proactive when the team is doing well.

😆 Don't worry Ludo. Some of us caught on to him 5 years ago.
Also risable is your assertion that too much is made of tactics, we are talking about the game at the highest level.

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