I expect us to win simply because it is over two legs.

When it is just one match anything can happen on the day but the teams we have been putting out should have the requisite quality to beat the teams remaining in the competition over two legs.

Now we are through to the semis and United are out, I think we'll win it.

Winning it wouldn't be such a big deal from a positive perspective, but I think losing it from here would be a significant blow so I really hope we do. We need to be gathering momentum during that part of the season.

Tony Montana wrote:

Let's definitely win this trophy for our sakes first.

But listen to Sky now. 'Arsenal are on course to win their first trophy since 2005'.

Let's shut them up.

Yeah. At least let's force them to add the word 'major' to that sentence.

I actually think we have more of a chance of winning it if we don't field a full team. Our first team players will lack the motivation that the likes of Vela, Gibbs and the other Pole will have in these games.

Gurgen wrote:

I actually think we have more of a chance of winning it if we don't field a full team. Our first team players will lack the motivation that the likes of Vela, Gibbs and the other Pole will have in these games.

Agreed.

We have lots of games and a big squad, and we should use it. I don’t think the drop off is really all that much in certain areas anyway and a couple of players have played an awful lot of games already.

Ricky1985 wrote:

Yep, it's easy to sit here and say "it's only the Carling Cup", but a day out at Wembley where the supporters get to watch one of our boys in a red and white shirt holding aloft a bit of silverware is what it's all about for us fans.

True. I'd be delighted if we won it though I wouldn't celebrate it like a Spurs fan.
The next day it'd be back to concentrating on the real business of winning PL and CL with the bonus of having proof that we have it within us to win a title.

Our priority should be on winning the league and becoming the best team in England. The CL is hard because you have to be good enough to beat the best teams on average once you get past the last sixteen and have a bit of luck as well. In the league, you play good teams only a 5th of the time, so you have the ability to focus on punishing minnows and giving yourself the leeway to lose against the best.

I would then put the Carling Cup as 2nd priority. This is low-hanging fruit. A run-out in Wembley. A trophy. Good spirit around the dressing room. Our kids get 'a little bit of belief' and pundits get off our backs.

As for Champions League vs FA Cup, the above applies. If we start to progress in one of these contests and the better teams fall out, then we should prioritize that contest. Just make sure we do not become obsessed about a CL tie to the detriment of everything else, as happened last year with Barca.

Don't see how we can be in the semi final of a competition with all of the big boys out and not talking about winning it. No, in the scheme of things, it's not a massive trophy, but as I keep saying the League Cup has been the prelude to much bigger things for both Bertie Mee and George Graham in the past. More importantly, I can't imagine that any of our players are thinking "It's only the Carling Cup". I also think the importance of lifting a trophy early in some of these players careers can't be overstated.

RocktheCasbah wrote:

Don't see how we can be in the semi final of a competition with all of the big boys out and not talking about winning it. No, in the scheme of things, it's not a massive trophy, but as I keep saying the League Cup has been the prelude to much bigger things for both Bertie Mee and George Graham in the past. More importantly, I can't imagine that any of our players are thinking "It's only the Carling Cup". I also think the importance of lifting a trophy early in some of these players careers can't be overstated.

Agree wholeheartedly RTC.

If we were to make the final and go to Wembley, i don't think any player will struggle to find motivation, doesn't matter how the competition is perceived. The thought of standing on the podium after being awarded medals and lifting silverware amid falling confetti and being a win away from it will give any player a blood rush.

RocktheCasbah wrote:

Don't see how we can be in the semi final of a competition with all of the big boys out and not talking about winning it. No, in the scheme of things, it's not a massive trophy, but as I keep saying the League Cup has been the prelude to much bigger things for both Bertie Mee and George Graham in the past. More importantly, I can't imagine that any of our players are thinking "It's only the Carling Cup". I also think the importance of lifting a trophy early in some of these players careers can't be overstated.

Don't you think it has a different significance for us now? A lower billing, and the players know it. I'd like to think that winning the Carling Cup would do wonders for our ability to win future trophies, and although I think can only be a good thing, I can't see it really making all that much of a difference.

The players, especially the proper first teamers, are noticeably more relaxed when it's a Carling Cup game. Wenger's selection downgrades the importance of the competition. What team Wenger picks should we reach the final, or even in the semis, will probably dictate how much of an impact winning this trophy has.

If he goes with anything other than his very best team, what is the message he's sending out? We want to win, if it fits in around our other commitments, but we're not hell-bent on taking this trophy back to the trophy cabinet at the Emirates.

I heard Wenger say about 12 months ago, when asked why he hasn't gone all out to win the two domestic cup competitions in order to give the players a taste of winning, he said that the players "aren't stupid". They know the League and the Champions League is where you measure yourself, and that winning the Carling Cup doesn't count for a great achievement. I don't think his attitude has changed really.

A question - what sort of team would everyone start at Wembley, if we get through and meet Villa in the final?

Ricky1985 wrote:

RocktheCasbah wrote:

Don't see how we can be in the semi final of a competition with all of the big boys out and not talking about winning it. No, in the scheme of things, it's not a massive trophy, but as I keep saying the League Cup has been the prelude to much bigger things for both Bertie Mee and George Graham in the past. More importantly, I can't imagine that any of our players are thinking "It's only the Carling Cup". I also think the importance of lifting a trophy early in some of these players careers can't be overstated.

Don't you think it has a different significance for us now? A lower billing, and the players know it. I'd like to think that winning the Carling Cup would do wonders for our ability to win future trophies, and although I think can only be a good thing, I can't see it really making all that much of a difference.

The players, especially the proper first teamers, are noticeably more relaxed when it's a Carling Cup game. Wenger's selection downgrades the importance of the competition. What team Wenger picks should we reach the final, or even in the semis, will probably dictate how much of an impact winning this trophy has.

If he goes with anything other than his very best team, what is the message he's sending out? We want to win, if it fits in around our other commitments, but we're not hell-bent on taking this trophy back to the trophy cabinet at the Emirates.

I heard Wenger say about 12 months ago, when asked why he hasn't gone all out to win the two domestic cup competitions in order to give the players a taste of winning, he said that the players "aren't stupid". They know the League and the Champions League is where you measure yourself, and that winning the Carling Cup doesn't count for a great achievement. I don't think his attitude has changed really.

A question - what sort of team would everyone start at Wembley, if we get through and meet Villa in the final?

The best team available. With an absolutely clear fortnight either side of the final, there's no excuse not to. As for not being hell bent on winning a trophy, don't you think we should be? There's a culture of losing at this club that this manager has fostered in only aiming for two trophies a season and we all know how many cards need to fall our way to win one of those- that culture needs to change.

Further, as the week of the first leg begins with the FA Cup match against Leeds and the week of the 2nd leg end with a potential 4th round tie, I don't think there's any excuse for not fielding as strong a side as possible in the semis. For me, it would be indefensible.

To answer your initial question, it may have a lower priority now. But why is that? The manager has created that impression and told us and the players that the Carling Cup is not as important as the Champions League and the League. In doing so, he gives himself a get out for failure in two competitions before they've already kicked off. I would accept that if Arsenal had come close to challenging for either of the two trophies we do go for on a consistent basis. But I don't think you can say that has been the case, has it?

The demise of the Carling cup has got nothing to do with what Wenger tells the fans. It's a simple fact that it's a low-ranking competition nowadays. The impact it will have on the first team (on the few first teamers that participate in it, anyway) is on pair with winning the Emirates Cup, I'd imagine.

I'd like for us to keep the team the way it's been so far if we do reach the final. Keep one or two experienced players in there and give the rest of the spots to reserves and youth players. They'll have done all the work if we get that far, so why shouldn't they get a chance to start?

In my opinion the opportunities given to fringe players in the Carling Cup shouldn't mean we choose to field an uncompetitive side in the later stages. This is Arsenal and it's not about everyone getting a certificate of participation. We should field a strong side.

I have to say, I agree with Rock. We've got to win this thing to get the monkey off our back, pick the best team and get it done. However, like previously mentioned, I really don't think it will do much for the club internally in giving them belief or making then "winners", but its effect would hopefully help us shake this loser image that we now have.

I also agree with Klausie, in the sense that Wenger hasn't been alone in disregarding the importance of the Carling Cup. It's a crap competition, that lots and lots of teams show complete disrespect for. However, winning it will shut most of the morons up and will also give our fans something to cheer about - which is badly needed.

I think Wenger will find it very difficult to suddenly tell Szczesny, Djourou, Gibbs, Denilson, Walcott etc. That they're not playing at Wembley because he's picking Fabianski, Vermaelen, Clichy, Fabregas, Arshavin....I think he probably should, but I'm not sure it's in his nature.

If it was Fergie or Mourinho in the same spot, getting stick from all directions for not winning anything, they would have been going all out from the 3rd round - Wenger, for better or worse, has more patience than that, and the trust/loyalty he has with his young players is more important to him than a missed trophy here and there. In some ways that's a good thing, in others it's clearly not.

"Non-first team" and "uncompetitive" isn't the same thing. In the context of the cup our current mix of backups and youth is definitely competitive. It's probably a moot point, though. I doubt we can spare, let alone scrape together, anything that resembles a regular team come february anyway.

At the very least winning this would take a bit of pressure off the team for the rest of the season.

Not sure why people are suggesting it's not as meaningful as it used to be, it was always well behind every other competition in importance.

Klaus wrote:

"Non-first team" and "uncompetitive" isn't the same thing. In the context of the cup our current mix of backups and youth is definitely competitive. It's probably a moot point, though. I doubt we can spare, let alone scrape together, anything that resembles a regular team come february anyway.

Perhaps "uncompetitive" was a poor choice of word but I'm certain you know what I mean, so no need to seize on minor details. If we have a choice between picking a side that's 50-50 to win or a side that's 70-30 to win, I think we should go with the latter option.

If we can't "spare" a decent team for a Carling Cup semi-final just because it's the second half of the season we have other problems, but I don't believe that will be the case.

Otf: presumably just that squad rotation in the League Cup is a norm now where once it was an exception, devaluing an already lesser competition.

If anything the League Cup has become more important to the bigger clubs ever since Abramovich took over Chelsea. It still ranks behind every other competition we participate in but it has been more valued in recent years by clubs than it ever was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Football_League_Cup_winners

Arsene has only followed this trend if anything in taking it more seriously by not recruiting the next generation of U - 18s this year.

I would love for us to win this competition. What it will do for our winning mentality is debatable but a taste of silverware for these players is important without a doubt. Ask any of our players and i can't imagine them being indifferent about a tournament which has only been won between Man Utd, Chelsea and Tottenham over the last seven seasons. Our 20 year olds and 22 year olds have been with us most of these seasons having watched their direct rivals win it year after year.