No offence, but you're the one with the cart before the horse Biggs.

How about instead of pretending that football matches are won by blood, guts, spirit and loyalty with actual ability a surprise plus, we admit (if just between ourselves, me old mucker) that they're won by good players, not good character?

Yeah 'cos the "best" team always wins in football innit.......

Look, if Wenger isn't prepared to buy the top players/pay top players wages, well he should have brought in some honest grafters with spirit.
Instead we've had to put up with prima donna brats for the last 6 years who of course have won fuck all but act as if they're world stars.

The team with better footballers, properly managed, has a better chance of winning.

Of course.
Now you have summarised our predicament succinctly.

Aha! Gotcha. You admit we'd be better off with Cesc and Perse.

You don't get it do you mate?
Wenger refuses to buy top class players (who cost a bit)
Arsenal refuse to pay the wages of sed players (so they leave or don't come here).

Whether Van Persie and Fabregas would improve our team is immaterial and irrelevant, as we won't buy them or keep them.
I support Arsenal so I see little point in pining after the stars of Man Utd and Barcelona, and frankly anyone who does is cringe worthy.

If it was simply a question of availability of funds well then as I advocated it would have been better to assemble some honest hard grafting tough spirited pro's, we might have won something but of course their resale value wouldn't be that high, and thats the point- We're a footballer factory we exist to make a profit not to win trophies.

I agree with Biggus to an extent. We are geared to be competitive not to win big trophies. However that does not mean we can't. The 2011 FA cup final is an example. Also you can't say the current team is uncompetitive. It's good enough to compete and maybe even win but it's never a sure shot thing with Arsenal these days.

Biggus wrote:

You've gotten it arseways Burnsy, I never said they weren't great players, I said that I'm glad they're gone- Just like any other player who doesn't want to play for us and thinks that they're bigger than the team.

Biggus wrote:

Whether Van Persie and Fabregas would improve our team is immaterial and irrelevant, as we won't buy them or keep them.

Two separate and somewhat contradictory points of view in one page Biggs. First you say you're glad they're gone, then you say yes, you admit they'd improve us but it's irrelevant because Wenger wouldn't pay.

All I'm saying is - why vow they should never return? If the opportunity arose and the players were willing then by jings, just get them back. If it's Wenger's fault they're not here that goes double.

I wouldn't take either of them back.

Hey, you know me Burnsy- I'd like nothing more than Kroenke and Cue ball leaving, been taken over by an oligarch that wants nothing more than but to bask in the reflected glory of his team in front of the other oligarchs at the annual oligarchs party, and Wenger sent packing and lots of Galacticos brought in- Buts lets face it- it's not going to happen.
The best we can hope for is a decent well balanced team that might win something.

And our team is looking more decent and well balanced than at any time since 2006.
And if we win something this year, I'll have been proved right in that we didn't need Fabregas/Van Persie and the rest of those cunts.

Edit- Capi is right.

Jesus Christ. I thought I was the pontificating idealist around here, but I find myself outflanked by a joint Biggus/Capi pincing manoeuvre based on high-faluting principles.

You saying I'm pompous, you wanker?

But seriously, there are a ton of good players in the world; they all come with high prices and expect big wages, just like VanPersie and Fabregas. The others haven't shit on us once already though, so why not get one of them?

Because the whole thread's predicated on the likelihood of Cesc (specifically) being likely to want to return if his Barca adventure falls in a heap.

He's back in the Mail praising Wenger today FWIW:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2204869/Cesc-Fabregas-backing-Arsene-Wenger-Arsenal-top.html

Captain wrote:

You saying I'm pompous, you wanker?

Sure, if it'll get a rise out of you.

The Gunners have failed to lift a trophy for seven years, prompting the likes of Fabregas, Gael Clichy, David Silva, Robin van Persie and Alex Song to join their rivals.

Fucking Wenger, he's selling them on before they even wear the shirt.

But the point still stands; he wouldn't be coming here for free. £35m transfer fee plus over 130k per week in wages would secure the signature of most very good players. There's no need to go back to players who have fucked you over once already.

Must be a personality difference, because the idea of taking Cesc or Perse back is completely alien to me. There's no justification for that as far as I'm concerned.

And no, it didn't get a rise, that was purely in jest.

No harm done Captain: I've been called a pretentious wanker more times than I can count. Occupational hazard of talking rubbish with long words online.

I don't really know what went down with Cesc: I've always presumed he had a "gentleman's agreement" with Wenger that he would leave at end of season 2011 if things didn't pan out trophy-wise. The fact that his attitude was poor that last six months, and terrible over the summer that followed is inarguable.

You may be right about that personality difference. I'd certainly take him back, whereas other players like Arshavin I consider to have always been poor professionals for us.

Sofiane ‏@BledMamba
News about Cesc: Guardiola planned to sell Fabregas but resigned before doing it. He wanted to punish Cesc for "his bad behaviour and lack

Sofiane ‏@BledMamba
lack of concentration and focus

Sofiane ‏@BledMamba
Guardiola also planned to do the same with Alves and Pique

Sofiane ‏@BledMamba
The news was revealed in Punto Pelota (Spanish TV) 10min ago

Whoa. Guardiola sounds like a nut job.