asajoseph wrote:

Don't quite get the Balotelli love. Movement was great, but when he had the chances he did a terrible job of sorting his feet out and getting a shot away at the right time. He's looked that way for most of the tournament to be honest.

Better than Cassano though.

Cassano reminds me of Arshavin. And that's not a compliment.

Our (England's) biggest problem last night was off the ball, not on it. First 25 minutes or so when we were fresh we actually got the ball down and kept it and were a decent threat on the counter. Problem was that our way of defending when we lost it was to filter straight back to the edge of our box in 2 banks of four. That means you concede long spells of possession and the longer the game went on the more physically and mentally frazzled we became and the result was that we didn't have the energy to keep the ball when we got it back.

Anyway, Roy gets a pass for this tournament, even though I felt he made some mistakes. Looking forward I want to see a bit more imagination from him, get rid of players like Scott Parker and Johnt Terry who dictate that we play deep because they're both terrified of being exposed for their lack of athleticism. Get the team to play with a higher line, pick players with energy and play proactive football. We DO have players that are capable of it, despite what some people might say. We just generally need to stop being so scared.

asajoseph wrote:

Don't quite get the Balotelli love. Movement was great, but when he had the chances he did a terrible job of sorting his feet out and getting a shot away at the right time. He's looked that way for most of the tournament to be honest.

Better than Cassano though.

thought balotelli's movement was quite poor tbh. good on the ball, but too static. cassano was ok. think perhaps di natale will start the next game.

put some money before the euro started on italy to win the whole thing. i think they have a fair shot of beating germany. germany is a good side, but overrated.

Rooney was beyond abysmal, could hardly string two passes together, how on earth did ashley young play every game of the euros is beyond me Ox should have been given more time. And would have preferred defoe coming on rather than carroll, and what on earth was henderson doing out there. Wilshere and scholes were huge misses they could have ripped the euros.

Pirlo was unbelievably good.

I also think that Germany will have a bit of a wake up call. Despite the "group of death" tag, they've had it pretty easy so far. Holland had utterly collapsed, Portugal had shut them out well and Gomez only scored because of a lucky deflection that fell right to his head, and even Denmark posed problems and could have won the game late on. Greece was the easiest possible opponent in the quarters as well.

Still, an extra 2 days rest + 30 minutes of play against the Italians who are an older side will definitely have an impact.

Oh, and we definitely need to get to the bottom of all these player 'retirements'. Carrick, Richards, Scholes and all those goalkeepers just picking and choosing when they are available is a fucking disgarce.

http://www.thefootballramble.com/latest/entry/literally-going-to-any-length

England fan doing his "best" to put off the Italians during the shoot-out

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/157265.html

Twitchy showing off his knowledge again. Wilshere is nothing like Pirlo, you muppet.

If England can find a decent holding mid before the WC they'll do ok under Hodgson. With Jack and maybe Cleverly in the team the passing in midfield should be much better. But like I say there's a lack of a good English holding player coming through with them.

Kel Varnsen wrote:

asajoseph wrote:

Don't quite get the Balotelli love. Movement was great, but when he had the chances he did a terrible job of sorting his feet out and getting a shot away at the right time. He's looked that way for most of the tournament to be honest.

Better than Cassano though.

thought balotelli's movement was quite poor tbh. good on the ball, but too static. cassano was ok. think perhaps di natale will start the next game

Balotelli was getting on the end of things in the box, & in behind Lescott & Terry quite a bit, which is what I was referring to. Cassano kept coming deep to collect, though maybe Prandelli had been looking for that because Diamanti was basically doing the same.

Is Cleverly actually any good? He's not one of those Phil Jones/Gibson hit and hopers that are destined for a sub role at Sunderland.

That said, Wellbeck really surprised me. I think he was very good indeed and showed a lot of maturity. Hard-worker - as you expect Fergie's players to be - but also showed some quality.

The problem is at the grass-roots level though. The way the youngsters here are taught and the way the youngsters in Spain and Germany are taught is very different. Xavi once said in their La Masia youth camp (or whatever that Barca thing is), they're told at age 10 that losing the ball is something to be ashamed of. With us, if you can throw yourself in front of a shot like Scott Parker or smash one in from 30 yards, you're MOTM. Do be a favour...

Patters wrote:

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/157265.html

Twitchy showing off his knowledge again. Wilshere is nothing like Pirlo, you muppet.

More lip service. As if england haven't produced any ball playing midfielders in 30 years.

There was a stutter in our football development in the nineties which is slowly being rectified.

We have enough good players to play decent football and give teams like Italy a proper game. Talk of technique is a misnomer and completely misses the point. Bunch of other shit being talked about today like winter breaks and the style of football played in the Prem. Nothing to do with anything.

We came into the tournament without much preparation, a few players not 100% and arguably we made a couple of selection 'errors'. Three gruelling games later, we went out on penalties in a game that most objective viewers would have rated 50:50 before kick off.

Don't really see the need for an inquisition and trotting out the old cliches. It was alright overall and there is obviously room for improvement; no need to say much more really.

The point is not only about having the players available, it's about whether they would be picked. AOC and Walcott are good attacking players that were available but Milner was favoured. Scott Parker is a national hero. Capello talked about Wilshere playing the Makelele role ffs. Don't let the old boys on the BBC panel fool you. They might be talking about a need to play good football but in two months time they'll be praising Stoke for playing to their strengths.

And getting to Italy's level shouldn't be the aim. They're not great. The aim should be competing with Spain and Germany and their conveyor belt of young talent. We might've rescued some like Wilshere because Arsenal is obviously a club that likes to focus on possession football but, in general, England's focus is all wrong. Even if the talent might be there, it won't be allowed to flourish.

Agree with Captain. This was always going to be a big ask, especially as football at this sort of level is so much about fine margins and small tactical details. This group just didn't have enough time together and there were too many extenuating circumstances.

Now looking forward, Roy needs to have a clear vision of how we are going to be a lot more competitive at the next World Cup in Brazil. The style he wants us to play, how we can be succesful and the kind of footballers he needs. I absolutely stand by the fact that we have enough good players to play a proactive brand of football to a high standard.

Patters wrote:

The point is not only about having the players available, it's about whether they would be picked. AOC and Walcott are good attacking players that were available but Milner was favoured. Scott Parker is a national hero. Capello talked about Wilshere playing the Makelele role ffs.

You can see why Hodgson, given the circumstances, decided to go with seasoned, experienced pro's and a very basic style of play. We'll have to see what he does next now he has the chance to actually build something. And re Jack, I dont see what's wrong with thinking outside the box. Pirlo was a number 10 at the same age as Wilshere, Schweinsteiger was a left midfielder 2 seasons age etc.

And getting to Italy's level shouldn't be the aim. They're not great. The aim should be competing with Spain and Germany and their conveyor belt of young talent. We might've rescued some like Wilshere because Arsenal is obviously a club that likes to focus on possession football but, in general, England's focus is all wrong. Even if the talent might be there, it won't be allowed to flourish.

We're going in the right direction as far as youth football and grassroots goes, but things aren't going to change over night.

Patters wrote:

We might've rescued some like Wilshere because Arsenal is obviously a club that likes to focus on possession football but, in general, England's focus is all wrong. Even if the talent might be there, it won't be allowed to flourish.

Steps have and are already being taken; will it be enough? we'll see.

Also:

Chamberlain started the tournament and didn't make a mark. Ashley Young had a mare. Rooney had a mare. Walcott is not a 4-4-2 winger and was arguably used wisely. Glen Johnson barely contributed going forward.

Milner performed his role (that is, the one his manager gave him) admirably; why should he get flack? Scott Parker was there to support Gerrard and maybe he isn't a great footballer but who else was available?

Criticise the tactics by all means but fair's fair, it's not the 'grafters' who let us down.

Reading what Walcott has to say on the official site, this England side is just like the current Arsenal one, trying to find positives from something they fucked up again, saying the young players gained a lot of good experience, beh it pisses me off.

It was a great game yesterday though, ceriantly one of the best of the tournament.

Germany (or Loew in particular) are quite transparent and their aim was always 2014 so they'll probably be good with a semi or final. Can't speak for Italy.

Don't think the Italian's were expecting much from the tournament either.

Was that a pre-season game?

As good as Pirlo's was, Hart went too early on every single penalty.

Balls of steel on Pirlo to take it that way after having missed one before.

I have no idea why England didn't ever seem bothered about closing pirlo down. It was clearly working whenever they actually tried, do why on earth Roy didn't designate someone to do it even at half-time I won't ever understand.

In the end they didn't concede so I find it a bit hard to criticize him for it.
I did make the same observation in the match thread however.

asajoseph wrote:

I have no idea why England didn't ever seem bothered about closing pirlo down. It was clearly working whenever they actually tried, do why on earth Roy didn't designate someone to do it even at half-time I won't ever understand.

Designated Rooney and he didn't do it. Should have been subbed instead of wellbeck.

Just watched Pirlo's performance. Absolute masterclass. Best CM performance I have seen in a long long time.

That one touch ball to Balotelli, wow.

I think Rooney and Wellbeck were supposed to share responsibility of picking up Pirlo, but only in certain areas of the pitch, mainly when he was in our half. Given that we filtered back and sat on the edge of our own box when we lost the ball (as any team with John terry does when not in possession) it would have been pointless to pick him up any deeper.

Was definitely Rooney from my viewing; kept doing a token jog towards Pirlo when he was in possession but didn't put too much effort in and wasn't interested in sacrificing himself in the slightest.

Rooney was initially, but wellbeck was definitely picking him up at times as the game wore on. Might have been cos Rooney got tired or cos he is senior or a bit of both.

Maybe, because Rooney switched roles twice. Put Rooney at 10; rubbish. Put Rooney at 9; rubbish. Basically, he shouldn't have been playing and certainly not for 120mins.