y va marquer wrote:

Crikey
It's all descended into proper farce.
Shows the contempt these people have for the reasoning powers of the masses when they resort to stunts like this.

Somebody somewhere is getting paid a fortune to advise Terry in these matters.
Pity they're not a bit more creative - they could make him do all sorts of ridiculous.
Though I suppose this is ludicrous enough.

Eh, the masses have reasoning powers?
First I've heard of it. :hmm:

Tim wrote:

Liverpool are just taking the piss here. I dont give a shit what they do in Uruguay, in this country you cant call a black person (or anyone) a "negrito". If you do there will be repercussions. End of story.

Nonsense.

Just because the Anglo-Saxons have had all this traumatic experiences with the term it doesn't mean that when someone from a different culture uses the term in a friendly way it should be classed as 'racism'.

In Latin America we refer to black people as 'negros' and they refer to white people as 'blancos', 'catires', or many other terms. It's normal for some black person in a bakery to call me over by using my skin colour for example, and we don't make a big deal out of it. It's very rare to see racism in the way you see it in England, Germany, France, or the US. One of my best black friends asks to be known as 'el negro' among our group of friends, and we affectionately call him that.

It's also normal to call people 'flaco' (thin one) or 'gordo' (fat one) when calling strangers on the street. No one takes offense to it, as there's none intended.

So we have someone who comes from a culture where people are comfortable with how they look and who they are, who is doing just what he is used to doing, and he gets an 8 match ban and gets branded a racist because people here are horrible cunts who use those terms in a negative way?

Seriously, fuck that. Tell him to not do it again, explain to him why it can be offensive, but don't ban him and call him racist when he clearly CLEARLY isn't.

I was used to kissing hello people when I moved to the English-speaking world. Girls I proceeded to kiss-hello took it as sexual harassment almost. I eventually stopped doing it when I noticed it wasn't culturally acceptable, but by your logic I should have been arrested.

Suarez plainly wasn't being 'friendly' and he gave that bullshit excuse way after the fact.

In your analogy; if the first girl you tried to kiss hello pulled away and then you continued to try to kiss her hello, then yeah, you probably would and should be arrested.

Suarez didn't come to europe yesterday, he's been here for five years. I don't know if he is racist but he caused an offence and got the according punishment. Now he won't do it again and, in all likelihood, nobody will do it again because they know the consequence instead of running around giving bullshit explanations for acting out of line.

Yeah and they weren't playing in Latin American but in the PL where players from every part of the world play and not everyone likes been called out- Hey! come here black/white/thin/fat one.

If Suarez was genuinely perplexed by the reaction, possibly Liverpool have failed in the information on cultural norms in the UK that they give their employees, if indeed they give any.

Since Evra is a cunt of the highest order and admittedly was taunting Suarez using less than nice words, it is quite clear that whatever Suarez responded with was ALWAYS meant to cause harm.

If, after 5 years of being in Europe, you dont know that calling somebody a negrito (in a decidedly non friendly way) is very likely to be considered racist, you're an ignorant moron.

Not in Spain or Italy. But that's beside the point. He's an asshole and a moron anyway, one who obviously didn't understand the cultural context he was in. Seems unlikely the he's racist.

Suarez made a comment about Evra's skin colour with the intent to insult him. Whether he's a racist or not is beside the point. No one knows and no one really gives a fuck. He's being punished for the insult, not for whatever his personal beliefs are. Same logic will apply to Terry regardless of how many black babies he'll hold up in front of the camera.

If he was speaking in Spanish he wasn't doing anything worse than if you were just speaking in English to your football opponent without meaning anything past the usual.

Captain, no. If after he was called out on it during this game he kept doing it then I'm fine with whatever ban you want. But a first offense with something that's so obviously a common misunderstanding all of us latin americans go through when we go abroad shouldn't carry an 8 match ban.

What he did wouldn't be considered racist in Latin America - not because we have more racism, but because we have a lot less.

Being a very well educated bilingual person I only found out about the negative connotation abroad of 'nigger' 'negro' etc. at the age of 17/18, and it was because I attended an American school.

I wouldn't expect a footballer to be aware of it to the extent people would expect. Ultimately its Liverpool's failing if anyone's.

RC8 wrote:

If he was speaking in Spanish he wasn't doing anything worse than if you were just speaking in English to your football opponent without meaning anything past the usual.

Captain, no. If after he was called out on it during this game he kept doing it then I'm fine with whatever ban you want. But a first offense with something that's so obviously a common misunderstanding all of us latin americans go through when we go abroad shouldn't carry an 8 match ban.

Evra claimed that Suarez said it to him ten times and Suarez has at no point rejected that claim. I saw the game with my own eyes and Evra got more and more agitated as it wore on and that, in conjuction with Suarez's apparent reluctance to deny any of the claims, inform my disbelief that it was a one time error.

The disciplinary committee will have taken statements from all involved before making their decision and that too carries weight in my opinion.

As I said, Suarez has been in northern europe for five years, a year in England; there is no way he wouldn't have been pulled up on this at some point in the past, even just a friendly word from a mate.

Klaus wrote:

Suarez made a comment about Evra's skin colour with the intent to insult him. Whether he's a racist or not is beside the point. No one knows and no one really gives a fuck. He's being punished for the insult, not for whatever his personal beliefs are. Same logic will apply to Terry regardless of how many black babies he'll hold up in front of the camera.

Spot on Klaus.

'Negrito' is not an insult. People might be offended by it assuming it is, but it isn't, it doesn't MEAN anything insulting. It's only insulting if understood in a certain historical context that many people are unfamiliar with.

If Evra stopped Suarez and told him "please don't call me that, here we have that word associated to very racist people who used it pejoratively", and he kept on doing so then sure enough, that's his fault.

But I really doubt that was the case. Evra might have said 'shut up' but I doubt he went beyond that. Chances are Suarez had no idea what a big deal those types of words are in the English-speaking world. In Spanish 'negrito' is so friendly many kids' shows use it. It's in all sorts of songs, books, etc. I myself find it difficult to never use that particular expression in my daily life. I still use expressions like 'gordo' and 'flaco' since people don't find them thaaat offensive.

Sounds like a cop out. Takes literally five seconds to realise if something you have said is offensive and you very rarely carry on saying it unless you are severely socially inept or you intend to continue the 'abuse'.

And to be honest; if you think Suarez was being friendly to Evra, you are very naive.

I don't think he was being 'friendly', but rather that the insults he was probably throwing at him were not based around the 'controversial' word. I don't think Suarez is racist, and I don't think that Suarez intentionally used a racist slur.

I've seen this mistake (which you make sound as if it's impossible to commit) being made too many times.

I wonder if someone calling Scholes 'ginger' would carry an 8-match ban.

No, you haven't comprehended what I said properly.

You are giving a summary judgement on your predisposed belief that what Suarez said wasn't racist; we get that. I am considering this instance, the public statements so far on the circumstances surrounding it and nothing more, as I have clearly outlined. That evidence points to one conclusion and that conclusion is what has gotten Suarez an eight game ban (which will absolutely be reduced on appeal).

Cant believe I'm older than big JT. He's an utter mess.

As far as the story goes, I despise big JT, but he's not a racist. He doesn't want to bring harm to other races, nor does he understand fully what he's saying.

He's just an example of broken Britain. A seriously uneducated ignorant moron. things get blown out of all proportion these days. Ive heard far worse from alf garnet

You could be right Dules.
Alf Garnet was a favourite character of my cousin (who was born in London), a seriously uneducated ignorant moron as you put it and a Chelsea supporter, (strangely enough) he loved making Asian jokes too.
He's just left his wife and 3 kids before Christmas and ran off with a Vietnamese girl young enough to be his daughter.
So it turns out he's not such a racist, just a fucking idiot.

People on RAWK have a tangline which says,"Suarez is not a racist". What a bunch of spastics !!

Some bloke there, who happens to be a Liverpool season ticket holder pleaded with RAWK admins.if he can have the tag line "Suarez is not a racist!" removed from under his avatar because he doesn't want people forcing their beliefs on him because the mods have forced everyone to have it.

He got absolutely slaughtered for it and some started abusing him, questioned his Scouse allegiance and even threatened to delete all his posts..