Yann M'Vila: Page 7 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Yann M'Vila

Ricky1985

We need that creative edge where it should be; in the forward line.

We need to accept we're not Barcelona, we can't play that way. Our own way will be fine, and that involves having a strong and athletic midfield and devastatingly quick and brilliant forwards.

Curtis

Ricky1985 wrote:
We need that creative edge where it should be; in the forward line.

We need to accept we're not Barcelona, we can't play that way. Our own way will be fine, and that involves having a strong and athletic midfield and devastatingly quick and brilliant forwards.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. That doesn't mean that all our midfielders should be "Makeleles" but that we should go back to a more traditional midfield, where the players share defensive and offensive responsibilities more (them having a bit of creativity doesn't harm though).

Claudius

I'm a big fan of 4-2-3-1 / 4-2-4 / Brazilian 4-2-2-2

Basically, have two tough men in front of the defense (M'Vila and Song), and give the four men in front free reign. If you can get a Hazard in, then you send out four men from Hazard, Walcott, Gervinho, van Persie, Rosicky, Wilshere, and our new striker (Kaka hehehe) and tell them to do them.

lorddulaarsenal

Yep provide a solid base on which your attack can try things knowing it's steardy enough behind them to cope with any fluff ups upfront

That wall of petit and vieira is my favourite arsenal midfield ever

Curtis

Jack van Gercott wrote:
Yep provide a solid base on which your attack can try things knowing it's steardy enough behind them to cope with any fluff ups upfront

That wall of petit and vieira is my favourite arsenal midfield ever

Exactly. And Vieira could easily set the scene for our attack as well - and sometimes lead it. That's what we should try to return to, even if a complete replication of that midfield probably is impossible. And with Wenger going for more pacy and direct players (Oxlade, Miyachi, Gervinho bought, rumours of Hazard and Elia) as opposed to the players that were slower and more in the mold of a playmaker or central attacking midfielder (Nasri, Hleb, Rosicky, Arshavin), it does lend a bit of credence towards the thought that Wenger is changing systems again.

Ricky1985

The blurb below the video:

Missed 1 pass and I didn't even add all of them. From wiki:
''On 25 March 2011, M'Vila completed 92.5 percent of his 134 attempted passes in a 2--0 UEFA Euro 2012 qualifying win over Luxembourg. The feat was the best by any France player in an international match since 2006.''

Not the best video to judge on, lots of square passes, but there are some good tackles in there, and he does look quick and athletic. He's clearly a very, very good passer of the ball.

Klaus

Ricky: Only thing it highlights is that he makes an awful lot of short quick passes, just like Denilson. That's his style.

Ricky1985

I genuinely don't think that was anything like Denilson, on the surface maybe, but not if you really watched Denilson. The kid couldn't play a forward pass to save his life - and I mean that literally. The concept of passing 'through the lines' was completely lost on him. M'Vila, to me, looks a very good passer of the ball. Very quick to see a forward pass, getting it to attackers who have found a bit of space.

Klaus

I'm telling you, that's the way he plays. Just go and download a couple of Rennes games from FBTZ and watch him closely. Basically no range at all in his passing. Not saying he can't do it but he generally doesn't from what I've seen. He's a defensive hub through which the ball is being distributed short distances. As opposed to Wilshere, who touched the ball 140-or-so times against Tottenham last season in Carling cup and managed to do something positive with it almost every time. That's the kind of player we need to strengthen this squad with in my opinion.

goon

Not bothered watching the video but there is nothing quick about Denilson's passing at all. I don't think I've ever seen a player needing to put as much effort into a simple squad pass as Denilson used to do. Quite often made the wrong choice too, and while he generallly found his man, they were never crisp (something which even Koscielny and Vermaelen do very well).

Klaus

I'm not saying he's on the same level as Denilson. I'm saying he plays pretty much the same way as Denilson when he was put in a defensive role, albeit more effective. He's got real upper body strength too so he doesn't get outmuscled in every challenge. But people who want creative passing between the lines will likely be disappointed in M'Vila, unless he has some unknown qualities that he doesn't show for France and Rennes. Not entirely ruling it out though. Wenger always look for players that have certain qualities rather than players who perform a certain way. That's why he was able to spot a top-class central defender in Vermaelen where everyone else saw a half-decent left back I suppose.

Ricky1985

I don't want another Wilshere, Klausie. I don't think that's what we need.

If you're telling me you think M'Vila is an ultra-reliable short passer, very strong, quick and defensively sound - basically a more effective, super-charged Denilson - then that's fine with me.

Klaus

My opinion, from limited viewing, is that he's a holding midfielder with little range in his passing. I think we can do better.

I want another central mid with creative abilities simply because when Wilshere is injured the team is absolute shit. The real problem is that we can't pass for toffee. I think Tim were spot on earlier this summer when he banged on about Banega to replace Fabregas.

goon

Oh I see. I don't think we need creative passing back there, we just need someone who'll get it forward quickly to someone in space like Wilshere, Ramsey, Gervinho, Robin and hopefully someone like Hazard.

Worth pointing out that we had Wilshere back there last season, how much did it really help us? We still looked pretty lost without Cesc's superb passing ability, even with Cesc we looked blunt at times and we're talking about two of the most creative players in Europe.

That suggests to me that the system was flawed rather than the players. It was too slow and it had no structure. I don't know if M'Villa will work but I do know playing with that sort of midfielder is what brought us success in the past.

Klaus

I think the real problem was that Cesc was mostly out injured, leaving most of the responsibility to Jack. Cesc-Wilshere-Song worked beautifully in the few games they played together.

Put it this way: Barcelona currently have both the most creative forward in the world and the most creative midfielder, courtesy of us. And they're doing well together so far. One thing doesn't have to exclude the other. Our problem has been a lack of quality above all. With better wide players and better central midfielders we would have had a much better and balanced team. I don't think Cesc brought imbalance. Maybe he was shouldering too much responsibility, but that's because he was much better than anyone else we surrounded him with, apart from van Persie and Wilshere towards the end. I doubt that we would even be discussing this if we'd have had someone like Schweinsteiger to complement them in midfield and a Di Maria in the attack.

Ricky1985

Klaus wrote:
My opinion, from limited viewing, is that he's a holding midfielder with little range in his passing. I think we can do better.

I want another central mid with creative abilities simply because when Wilshere is injured the team is absolute shit. The real problem is that we can't pass for toffee. I think Tim were spot on earlier this summer when he banged on about Banega to replace Fabregas.

I honestly can't think of a much worse thing we could do than sign a player like Banega (relatively speaking).

Why would we want a weak, slow, defensively inept, poor man's version of Cesc Fabregas? I don't doubt his quality, he can pass the ball brilliantly, he has great awareness of time and space, brilliant technique, but he's not Cesc, not even close - no one we can get is. And even then, even with Cesc, the system wasn't working, not with the players we had.

We accommodated Cesc because he was amazing, we built a system around him that wasn't perfect for the League we're in, or the preference of the coach we have - why wouldn't we now try to build a more stable system? Something closer to the successful teams we've had previously?

That's where I see the logic in signing a player like M'Vila, and encouraging the progress of a player like Frimpong - athletic players that aren't limited physically, but are still of good quality technically. Ramsey and Wilshere fit that description too, but are obviously weighted slightly more towards the technical.

Captain

The thing is, Ricky, right now Song is better than M'vila and that says it all really.

Klaus

Ricky1985 wrote:
Why would we want a weak, slow, defensively inept, poor man's version of Cesc Fabregas?

He's none of those things. Don't think you could be more wrong about him.

Ricky1985 wrote:
I don't doubt his quality, he can pass the ball brilliantly, he has great awareness of time and space, brilliant technique, but he's not Cesc, not even close - no one we can get is. And even then, even with Cesc, the system wasn't working, not with the players we had.

I'm not talking about him as a direct replacement for Fabregas positionally wise. Think of him instead as one of three central midfielders who understands the value of good, quick passing. I think this team need a Banega or a Khedira rather than someone like M'Vila.

Ricky1985

Captain wrote:
The thing is, Ricky, right now Song is better than M'vila and that says it all really.

You know my thoughts on Song - I'm not a fan particularly. M'Vila looks like a really good player to me, and what swings it is if Wenger's prepared to pay upwards of £15M for him.

Kel Varnsen

Ricky1985 wrote:
We need that creative edge where it should be; in the forward line.

We need to accept we're not Barcelona, we can't play that way. Our own way will be fine, and that involves having a strong and athletic midfield and devastatingly quick and brilliant forwards.

we may not be barcelona, but we shouldn't try to become spurs either. all great teams have creativity in the middle of the field. if we give that up, we are giving up our ambition to be the best.

furthermore, creativity is needed in midfield. not just up front. space is created primarily by midfielders. not forwards.

finally: our forwards are not nearly good enough to carry our team in terms of creativity. gervinho is average. walcott is a donkey. arshavin past it. that leaves us with rvp. one man to carry this team? both goals- and creativity-wise?

« Previous Page Next Page »