Summa 26 TW: Page 239 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One more in the Tolly

Summa 26 TW

Meatwad

Cannon
6 goals in ligue 1 last season, hmm that's gotta be worth 90m in 2026 money.

Bernard Woolley

Haha sounds like Thomas Lemar Mk 2.

Cannon

TambourineMan He is well rated frankly also we have been linked with him in the past. Should cost about 30-35 mill. I don't mind.

Doc

Remember seeing him in the Dutch league a few seasons ago and thinking he has potential, no idea how he has developed

Gunner89

USArsenal

Gunner89

So, Romano is telling everything what they already know.. Got it.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Romano is a gimp.

USArsenal

So..... do we think Alvarez for 120 million is worth is if we can sell Gab for 55-60 million? I dont see us getting rid of Gyokeres after 1 season, so logically, Alvarez would be a Gab replacement. (which would be a bit harsh on Tzolis, who certainly has looked the business thus far, even if its a small sample size)

Pepe LeFrits

USArsenal So..... do we think Alvarez for 120 million is worth is if we can sell Gab for 55-60 million? I dont see us getting rid of Gyokeres after 1 season, so logically, Alvarez would be a Gab replacement. (which would be a bit harsh on Tzolis, who certainly has looked the business thus far, even if its a small sample size)

I assume Jesus going is also included in this hypothetical... that leaves us with 7 established players competing for the LW/RW/10/9 positions, plus Dowman, Nwaneri and Merino as prospects/versatile options. I think that is enough numbers wise, but I also think that Alvarez is probably slightly better than anyone we have at 9 or LW, so I would say yes. I'd rather a natural LW, but I don't see anyone suitable being available.

Klaus

I think Alvarez would play as a striker or a second striker, he's not a winger. Guardiola used him as a De Bruyne backup a lot at City. Ideally he plays off a real striker but I don't know if it's realistic to have him do that from the wing in Premier League.

I really hope we don't buy him for that kind of money. Think it's the same mistake Barca did with Coutinho. Same flakiness of the player who needs a certain setup to work, same risks.

Claudius

Klaus same mistake Barca did with Coutinho. Same flakiness of the player who needs a certain setup to work, same risks.

29 G/A in your last 32 champions league games doesn’t exactly shout flaky.

Klaus

Claudius Champions League is a terrible standard, the group stages are so bloated now. 15 years ago the top scorer ended up with 6-7 goals like in a World Cup; now it's a free-for-all where players pad their stats. The league is the only reliable indicator of how a player performs over a season.

We had the better striker on the pitch in every game against Atletico in Champions League last season if that's the yardstick you want to use.

JazzG

Claudius 29 G/A in your last 32 champions league games doesn’t exactly shout flaky.

Top 10 players in the CL last season by G/A

Kvara
Mbappe
Kane
Alvarez
Vini Jr
Gordon
Olise
Luis Díaz
Dembele
Osimhen

Yeah so I don't buy this idea that CL stats are just pure stat padding, that is a pretty decent list of players on that list.

awooga83

Klaus yep exactly this and it's almost used as a way of misrepresenting the reality. The group stages allows so much stat padding as there are so many games and only 2 you have to face at the higher end of the quality spectrum.

Pepe LeFrits

awooga83 yep exactly this and it's almost used as a way of misrepresenting the reality. The group stages allows so much stat padding as there are so many games and only 2 you have to face at the higher end of the quality spectrum.

Think that's over egging it. If you look at his CL goals for Atleti, he has scored against us, Real, Barca, Inter, 3 + 2 assists against Spurs plus a bunch of goals and assists against reasonable mid tier teams like Leverkusen (2), Frankfurt (1 + 2 assists), Lille and PSV. A lot of his La Liga goals have come against the bigger sides too so I don't think it really holds that he's stat padding.

QuincyAbeyie

No club would want Gyokeres for close to the amount of money as Alvarez.

awooga83

Pepe LeFrits my point was on the champions League stat, I mean the group stages just aren't the same intensity as the quarter final onwards so you get some crazy scores that get thrown up because it just doesn't matter as much and there have been more games.

On the teams I was referencing how the champions League is seeded. There are only 2 teams you have to face from the top tier, then 2 each from 2,3,4. Leverkusen are not a great team in reality and certainly not that spurs game then were a shambles.

I wouldn't lean on that data to much was my main point. We've had plenty of comfortable league stage results and then met the same team in the knockout and it be much tighter and a very different game.

His la liga return last year doesn't look especially prolific either.

Pepe LeFrits

awooga83 my point was on the champions League stat, I mean the group stages just aren't the same intensity as the quarter final onwards so you get some crazy scores that get thrown up because it just doesn't matter as much and there have been more games.

On the teams I was referencing how the champions League is seeded. There are only 2 teams you have to face from the top tier, then 2 each from 2,3,4. Leverkusen are not a great team in reality and certainly not that spurs game then were a shambles.

I wouldn't lean on that data to much was my main point. We've had plenty of comfortable league stage results and then met the same team in the knockout and it be much tighter and a very different game.

I understand your point, I just don't think it holds up when you actually look at the games he has performed in. So we shouldn't consider the CL because it's full of duffers and nonsense group games, ok, I'm not sure that argument was being made last summer when we were talking about Gyokeres CL goals but nonetheless he still scored in every knockout round of the CL he's played in at Atleti - goals against us, Real, Barca, Brugge and 3 goals 2 assists against the shite down the road.

His la liga return last year doesn't look especially prolific either.

Not saying he is prolific, just that it counts as further evidence that he's not some scrub who can only score against shit teams in the CL.

daredevil

awooga83

If the argument is that goals scored in the early stages of the Champions League should count for less because the opposition is weaker, then logically you’d have to apply that principle consistently.

You could just as easily argue that Premier League goals against bottom-half teams count for less than goals against top-half teams because the opposition is of a lower standard.

Once you start discounting goals based on the quality of the opposition, there’s no obvious reason why that logic should apply only to the early stages of the Champions League.

Then why even look at goals scored without applying weighting to each goal depending on the opposition.

RowJimmy

I think it's not so much that CL teams are better or worse as that the nature of the competition is different. You don't see the constant low blocks. Games are more open. So you get Martinelli's excellent goal scoaring stats in the CL vs his mediocre stats in the PL.

The thing is that we don't need Alvarez to win the PL. Our current squad is PL ready and proven. We need (or it is widely thought that we need) a more mercurial attacking talent to win the CL. So in that case the CL stats are exactly what we should be looking at.

awooga83

RowJimmy we need the technical quality for latter stage champions League. Early stage doesn't matter we won't have a problem it's when we come up against those top sides and I'm not sure he has looked like the guy to drop 120m on it whatever for that especially if he doesn't want to come here.

awooga83

Pepe LeFrits it's in the equation I just think so many of the champions League games now are very different they don't matter teams are a bit less cautious and if a game goes against them they aren't fighting to the same extent as knock outs etc so you can get blow out results. By all means look at the latter stage, quarters on for me, goals and assess the type of goals and whether whatever circumstances they were scored in make it valuable and equally worth the 120m plus wages that we might have to pay.

awooga83

daredevil no because the quality of the prem I think is higher then the lower tiers of the champions League so there would be genuine jeopardy for most teams from the off if the champions League was at the same level at the bottom. As it is pretty much every big side that matters is going to get through to the knockout and that's when the tournament really gets started and you see more competitive matches

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