Summa 26 TW: Page 142 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One more in the Tolly

Summa 26 TW

awooga83

Qwiss is it not really that the club internally agreed an approach framework we could approve for a potential deal. Rather then any actual transfer movement? Given we don't really know what those parameters could be it might also be way off what Madrid or the player would.

Mirth

awooga83 I think it’s Vini Jr or bust for the LW position now. We’re not going to spend £150m for Barcola - not because we can’t affording it but the Kroenke’s don’t think that’s worth the risk. I can’t say I disagree with them if I was being neutral about the whole thing

awooga83

Mirth then that would be pretty depressing because I think that's a low probability outcome and if Arsenal don't have other targets given we've sold Trossard and the existing quality is not good enough IMO who is overseeing our recruitment because I don't think that's good enough (*if that's the position)

Qwiss

awooga83 we definitely need something added to the attack. Ok we've got Tzolis, maybe he'll be a revelation but that's a big risk and even if he's been well scouted and is a success its a big step up for him and may have some ups and downs along the way.

Mirth

awooga83 agree.

I think the mistake was made in past season’s rather than just now. We’ve boxed ourselves into a corner where we play a low probability game for guaranteed quality or pay over the odds for dubious quality.

Should have just thrown the cash for Kvra 2 seasons ago

Bernard Woolley

awooga83 I agree. In fact, I am pretty sure the club has offers and feelers out to various agents for various players at all times and they accelerate / decelerate negotiations for them all depending on the situation. Not very different from how any of us would prioritise candidates during recruitment. You wait for the perfect candidate but at some point draw the line and always end up with some risk on either side (dream candidate coming up too late or waiting too long for them). It’s the nature of recruitment. I think the good thing here is there is no other choice for LW so the “backup” for Vini Jr is Eze. The only “pivot” I would like to see is going after Kroupi aggressively but that can be done in January as well in the worst case.

MistaT

I would love to see an upgrade to our attack but left left wing options of Tzolis, Martinelli, and Eze isn’t that concerning to me.

My bigger concern is honestly the right wing. If we don’t see a fit Saka that side is going to be a bigger issue than not upgrading our left wing.

Pepe LeFrits

Need to resolve this asap one way or the other. My fear is we miss out on both him and Barcola.

Cannon

Honestly can’t decide between Vini jr and Barcola.

Claudius

Cannon as in if both were available and willing, you wouldn’t be able to decide? Or something else?

Qwiss

I think Barcola is a huge gamble. One of the biggest you could possibly make. For me the price of that gamble is far too high.

RowJimmy

I like Barcola a lot but I think he has the same strengths and weaknesses - and the same role in the squad - as Martinelli, and is not enough of an upgrade to be worth the difference in cost. If we're going to take a punt I'd rather go for Kroupi.

samthegooner

My frustration with the market is the hyperinflation of the tier of players that are not world class. I have no issue with the price tag on Vinicius - that's what you should be paying for a world class talent. However, there isn't enough distance between the fee that you would need to pay for Vinicius (tough to know with his contract situation but probably around 150m) and the fee you would need to pay for the tier below, the Barcolas, Diomandes, etc.

I like Barcola and do think he's an upgrade on Martinelli but I also don't think there's an enormous delta between them. So why would I pay close to 100m more for Barcola? To me, the upgrade in talent is not even close to equating to the difference in cost. With Vinicius, it's pretty clear. Our issue is that we are trying to upgrade a position where we have two good players (jury is clearly still out on Tzolis) with a very limited pool of players that would improve us. The club looks like it has decided it is not willing to pay a huge premium for a marginal upgrade (Rogers, Barcola) and I am definitely on board with that. But it leaves the cupboard extremely bare in terms of options. I think I'd rather hold out for the chance of the game changing signing (Vinicius) and risk running it back with a combo of Tzolis/Martinelli/Eze but I completely understand any dissenting opinions there. I also think there may be a couple of names that pop up in the next month that we were not already thinking about. But hopefully Vini's contract talks are unsuccessful and we can swoop in.

MistaT

samthegooner that hyper inflation is likely a byproduct of wages.

The total outlet for Vinicius would still be massively larger than Dimando as a result of wages 5 to 6X, and likely signing/agent fees too.

Then you get into image rights and contractual appearances, and who knows what other levers.

Cannon

Claudius Yes. If given a choice to sign both which one should the club go for.

EDIT: I am just wondering how Vinicius Jr fits in the larger scheme of things. At 26 he has won it all and i have to wonder what would his motivation be going forward. We forget how much pressure and scrutiny a large fee and wages can bring. Declan was a unicorn transfer in the sense how seamlessly he fit in and no one talks about his fee anymore. More importantly is Vini going to comfortable working on Arteta's rigid system? How are players like Rice and Saka going to react to his wages during their renewals. On paper he is still more of certainty in terms of impact but then i am very sure Barcola is ALSO going to be a impactful player for us.

samthegooner

MistaT Oh completely agree that the overall outlay for Vinicius would be significantly larger than Barcola but I still think the transfer fee for Barcola is nowhere close to equivalent to his talent.

JazzG

samthegooner Agreed, they want full whack for a player who still needs to develop further. Also the amount of revenue and exposure someone like Vini Jr would generate compared to say Barcola would be significant.

JazzG

Vini is the finished product, he has played on the biggest stage and has delivered for the biggest club in the world time and time again. The problem with him is his maturity on the pitch, lets be honest he acts like a complete and utter knob at times and seems far too emotional on the pitch. Gets into way too my confrontations with other players which I have never liked. What appeals about him is he knows what it is like to carry an attack and be the main focus and deliver for the team. I have seen games when he looks marked out of games but he keeps going again and again. With all that comes an ego, all pro players have an ego and I'm sure Arteta will have a good idea of what he is like from our Brazilian players so if he was going to be a problem I'd like to think we'd stay away. He hasn't in the past year or so exactly covered himself in glory, clear he didn't want to play under Alonso and you don't want this guy to come in and make our dressing room toxic. The guy is a maverick on the pitch though that can't be denied.

Barcola could become that player but whether he has the mentality to be that leader on the pitch I am not so sure. He has elite potential but is quite a wasteful player but he will become top drawer soon imo.

I am still 95% sure he won't sign for us, however that 5% is taking over my life and I am spending my fucking spare time scrolling through twitter frantically checking for an update!

Ray

Wasn’t mourinho also the guy that sold us Ozil, Vini would be quite reminiscent of that. But not sure if that’s a good thing or not

Meatwad

what i don't like about barcola is that he's 24 in a month and people talk about him like he's a 20 yr old prospect. he's approaching the age where it's what you see is what you get, no more projections about the kind of player he can become.

Qwiss

Meatwad exactly. People were happy to write off Rogers as too expensive but Barcola is the same age, would cost more and is less productive in a worse league.

HomeSteak this is good. Keep Martinelli unless we get Vini.

HomeSteak

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