Summa 26 TW: Page 121 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One more in the Tolly

Summa 26 TW

Bernard Woolley

samthegooner Too early to say re: Kroupi. If not him, then some other high quality forward like Diomande and if not now, then in the winter or next summer. Either way, unrestrained spending has its own consequences and hence my focus on being capital efficient in a part of the pitch where more options seem to be available.

Qwiss

JazzG I agree the price is steep but I'd much rather overpay for a 22 year old than 28/29

Why pay the same for a 22 year you hope will eventually be as good as Guimarhaes when you can just sign the finished product now? Where was the same attitude to buying young for Rogers, who is far more established and proven than Scott.

Looks Scott is a good player but I don't see a place for him in this team now. The whole point of getting Bruno is that he would be ready to go day 1 with Rice out and he wouldn't need a season or 2 to be ready. If you were grabbing him cheap then yeah it'd be worth it but he's going to cost £80m plus. If that's where we valued Rogers then we must value Scott quite a bit below that as he's not close to Rogers level yet.

Burnwinter

Qwiss The whole point of getting Bruno is that he would be ready to go day 1 with Rice out

I have to say I don't like Guimarães, but I've been all in on signing him now for a few weeks. Football dressing rooms are tricky, but of all the signings being talked about, this feels like the one that probably gets us out the gate at the right clip this season.

You sign a player of seasoned quality who's been starved of trophies and put him in the champions' dressing room, you get to benefit psychologically in two ways: first from the newcomer's redoubled appetite for success, and second from the clear message to everyone else that slackers will walk the plank.

Klaus

Qwiss Why pay the same for a 22 year you hope will eventually be as good as Guimarhaes when you can just sign the finished product now?

People still think too much in terms of small clubs I reckon. Arsenal between 2004-2025 was exactly like this and it neither brought home big sales nor success. The point of bringing in players for any serious club has to be on-field success, not their transfer value 4 years from now. Otherwise you're just a jumped up Aston Villa.

The time to pounce on a youth player is when they're going to be virtually unattainable unless you get them before they break through, like Saliba or Mbappe, in which case you get them long before they've featured in Champions League and Premier League. But I'm not seeing us making any of those proactive signings anymore (which might or might not be because Raul and Vinai dismantled so many of our scouting resources).

JazzG

Qwiss Because the finished product is 29 years old, has 2 years left on his contract and is not better than either of our CMs and could cost us over £85m if latest rumours are to be believed. When our CMs are are all fit then he becomes a expensive rotation who is worth next to nothing in a few years.

I'm not gonna complain if we get him but that isn't a very wise way to spend money. I think the initial figures were saw of around ~ £65m are a much more fair value for him but Newcastle have sold big so they won't let him go cheap.

As for Scott he's shown against us and many other teams he is good enough at the highest level, I see no reason why he couldn't slot right in straight away.

Burnwinter

samthegooner So in that scenario, the only reason Bournemouth would do it is if they were worried he might be a flash in the pan or that he might get injured and want to lock in the sale.

I've got a feeling the rare occasions those kinds of deals happen it's because a top young player at some lesser club is obsessed with locking in a move, and the bigger destination club is keen on the player and the move but has squad issues. Doesn't seem on the cards at all.

samthegooner

Burnwinter I was always looking for a reason to hate him and Richarlison because they are just "not nice" on the pitch (as my 3 year old would say), but was always stunned reading the accounts of both Brazilians off the pitch as they seem to be completely different personalities to their on-pitch devils. I think he'd be a great addition to the dressing room - we are going to need hungry players who won't rest on one title and bringing in guys who are dying to win one is a great way of refreshing that dynamic IMO.

Klaus

Burnwinter You sign a player of seasoned quality who's been starved of trophies and put him in the champions' dressing room, you get to benefit psychologically in two ways: first from the newcomer's redoubled appetite for success, and second from the clear message to everyone else that slackers will walk the plank.

I think the point about being starved for trophies is good, and there's also the fact that he's a natural leader. That's another dimension we'll lose on the pitch if Rice doesn't play, and no youth player is going to replace it.

Temo

Klaus But I'm not seeing us making any of those proactive signings anymore (which might or might not be because Raul and Vinai dismantled so many of our scouting resources).

I don't think it has to be either potential or ready-made. Trossard is the perfect model of the signings we should be investing in. If an Alverez becomes available, by all means give Athletico what they want (and perhaps Bruno is in that bracket), but otherwise the difference between the few tiers below that are massively overstated, as is also the idea that talented 22 year olds reliably develop into anything close to justifying their original price tag.

Qwiss

Klaus definitely think people are still in a build mentality. It made sense to sign young players when Ode, Saka, Saibla, etc were young too. Its why we have a squad with such a good age profile now. But we are here, we've made it. Additions need to be ready to get on board now.

awooga83

Don Pacifico I agree with this and it's the aspect that I'm most concerned about in transfers. Any sense that Saka or other players will just step up to the level is a bad plan. Hopefully they do but we should be looking at the last 18 months and working on that being the norm. We also need to up our technical level so we should be looking to get a couple of players of that type especially given we lost Trossard. For now the moves we've been linked with don't reassure me.

RowJimmy

We are never going to have the same resources as City and PSG but need to compete with them. This requires taking chances on young players. No other way over the long - or even medium - term in my opinion. We need more players who will grow into their roles with us.

Klaus

RowJimmy We are never going to have the same resources as City and PSG but need to compete with them. This requires taking chances on young players.

I think this requires identifying young players before they cost a hundred million.

Burnwinter

We've presently got bigger revenues than City, and can possibly sustain that while continuing to compete in similar competitions, so it's highly unclear we can't compete with City on signings.

The PSG problem is trickier: they can work with a relatively lop-sided and small squad stacked with high wage stars, and still rest key players flexibly due to their weak domestic opposition. I can see us having trouble with them again in Europe with comparable budgets, due to their fewer injuries and better legs at the end of each season.

As for the present, I reckon City are stocking up on players because they've got an idea of some sanction that's incoming.

HomeSteak

samthegooner

HomeSteak There were other reports that Diomande has stated he is unwilling to play the left wing predominantly and is looking for a right wing role. I find it a little hilarious that a 19 year old player is dictating what position he will play but it just doesn't sound like a great fit all around when you take this into account, as well as his uncertain agent situation and his preference of PSG.

lorddulaarsenal

HomeSteak is he hiding a Gervais under there?

Ray

HomeSteak plays for Leipzig and is an Ivorian winger with a dodgy hairline. This has disaster written all over it.

Meatwad

lorddulaarsenal
too many of these footballing people don't realize that hairline confidence is a real thing. if ours believed we would have never signed noni.

Klaus

Now this is a rumor I can get behind.

Meatwad

Klaus
hasn't he always been available for the right offer? the problem as always this summer is what is the right offer.

Klaus

Meatwad Not sure, but I think the important piece of the rumor is that we're turning our attention towards him now. It's where it should have been from the beginning imo.

Sicario2

£60m for a 28 year old Konsa or a free transfer for a 34 year old injury prone John Stones 🤔

Klaus

Sicario2 I don't think it's a binary choice; there are other players in Europe outside England.

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