Winta winda: Page 36 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Winta winda

daredevil

Potential is fine being developed elsewhere. Developing potential is not or should not be the next step for this team. The next step should be a continuation of what we have developed and topping it up. We can't be repeating the same mistake Wenger made and replacing the top players with top potential.

We don't have time to develop potential. We need ready to go players who will contribute today. Not young talent with massive holes in their game who won't be trusted because they can't concentrate, track runners or or play with intensity.

Bouaddi is 18 and Yildiz is 20. People are ready to ditch our experienced players for these kids. It's crazy talk.

Qwiss

daredevil kind of feels like you didn't read my post properly.

Meatwad

daredevil
but it wouldn't be just any 18 year old. we're talking about the elite ones. real madrid signed elite teens and won champions leagues. but that's a bridge too far for big old arsenal.

samthegooner

Meatwad Exactly. Bouaddi is not just some 18 year old academy player. He is starting for Lille game in and game out as an 18 year old and putting in big performances. He's already played 2,600 minutes in Ligue 1, 600 minutes in the Champions League and 800 minutes in Europa/Conference league competitions. We already have world class players in midfield - is Tonali starting over Rice or Zubimendi? Not in my mind. He's also right in their age range so I'd rather have a squad player who we can both rely on currently and also work to develop into one of the best midfielders in the world. It's impossible to know what he will develop into but personally I think Bouaddi's ceiling is higher than Tonali's and adding in 1-3 young starlets who can still give us minutes will help us future proof what I am hoping is a trophy filled next 5 years.

daredevil

Qwiss

I think we're talking past each other here.

We should obviously be seeking the next superstars but they shouldn't becomen part of the squad until they have a wealth of experience. Keep them on loan. The blueprint is Saliba or what we're doing with Nwaneri.

I have no problem with signing Bouaddi and keeping him at Lille for a few more seasons. I do have a problem with having a player who has 50 career appearances to form any serious part of our squad.

Meatwad

daredevil
yeah they fit the bill, but i had one frenchman in mind since we're talking about an 18 yr old one (and not loading up the team with kids by the way): raphael varane.

Qwiss

daredevil the next phase is adding a superstar. Hard to buy a ready made superstar these days. Other option is get someone on the brink of it and bring them through.

If we give up developing players we'll fall away quickly. Has to be some level of development to sustain us. Also it'd be I be of horrible if we didn't develop talents like Dowman, Nwaneri, Salmon, MLS, etc

Qwiss

daredevil I don't like that blueprint. Sale ba should've been playing for us a year earlier. I also don't see any huge benefit in having players ahead of prospects for the sake of it.

daredevil

Qwiss

Fuck sake - I accidentally edited my previous post instead of responding with a new post.

I think we're talking past each other here.

We should obviously be seeking the next superstars but they shouldn't become a part of the squad until they have a wealth of experience and skin in the game. Keep them on loan and let them develop. The blueprint is Saliba or what we're doing with Nwaneri.

I have no problem with signing Bouaddi and keeping him at Lille for a few more seasons. I do have a problem with having a player who has 50 career appearances to form any serious part of our squad in place of Merino or Norgaard. I do have a problem with people ready to ditch Trossard and Martinelli for Yildiz.

lorddulaarsenal

Qwiss sounds like someone isn’t optimistic on the Dixon Mooney coup

daredevil

samthegooner

Bouaddi isn't starting over Rice and Zubi either. The difference is that Bouaddi as a youngste has to develop and has virtually no.chamce taking serious minutes off Rice or Zubi, while Tonali is one of the best midfielders in the league who easily could just like Madueke and Eze have. There's no planet on which a raw kid with 50 career appearances makes a better signing than a top 8 PL and CL midfielder.

Actual ability is more valuable than potential. Potential is often hype and ends up unrealised. I'm not against the signing - but let him stay there for a few more seasons if we do. Tonali at 25 future proofs the squad way more.

daredevil

Qwiss

What we did with Saliba was perfect - he hit the ground running with no issues. Now I get that we could have had him earlier instead of Luiz but coming into a dodgy team could easily have destabilised him.

Regardless, we're not that in that position anymore where we have players ahead of young prospects for the sake of it. Every player is valuable in my view.

QuincyAbeyie

daredevil Bouaddi isn't starting over Rice and Zubi either.
Neither did Vini.

samthegooner

daredevil The difference in our opinions is rooted in the difference in our evaluations of the players. I've watched Tonali a bunch this year and he is nowhere close to a 90m player to me. Could he be a good rotation option for Rice and Zubimendi? Of course. But I don't want to spend 90m on a rotation option in midfield that is not likely to develop too much more and I'd have my doubts on if he'd ever develop to a point where we would even consider starting him over either of those players.

Bouaddi on the other hand is better than you and others are giving him credit for. He's played a lot of football at a high level for a good team already. Personally, I don't think he's as far off Tonali's current level as folks are saying in this thread. And he has the potential to develop into a world class midfielder. If he's good enough to provide minutes for us as cover for Rice and Zubimendi already, which I think he is, then I'd love to have him learning from those two over the next two seasons too as he comes into his own and ideally usurps one. We have a phenomenal squad already. I think the way to take us to the next level of a year over year world powerhouse, we need to start investing in potential world class talents right before they break out and are 100m+ signings. Bouaddi fits that bill for me along with Eichhorn and Yildiz (probably too late on him now as he will be close to 100m).

lorddulaarsenal

Burnwinter

lorddulaarsenal If he were really that highly rated he'd be £30m. One to monitor and hope we can bring along

GooneriC

Yildiz is up there for me, he isnt some prospect. We should do all we can to get him

samthegooner

I think when you spend 90m+ on a signing, they need to be a player that comes in and pushes your current starter for immediate minutes or to the bench. To me, I'd target a signing like that at ST, LW and maybe Odegaard's spot (not all three of course, maybe 1-2). Every other position in our squad feels like we have our starter so I'd be looking to sign depth but not at price points over 50/60m in this market.

We certainly need another world class attacking talent this summer. I'd be fine spending a good amount of our budget on that player and probably looking to get a bit younger in our attacking depth as well by moving Jesus, Trossard and maybe Martinelli. I'd be looking for more depth in the midfield and maybe another defender as well. I still am very bullish on Alvarez and Yildiz so my ideal summer window would b (as of right now):
IN: Alvarez, Yildiz, Bouaddi, Hincapie (permanent)
OUT: Jesus, Trossard, Norgaard, Vieira

lorddulaarsenal

Dixon & Mooney!

Coombs

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