Noni Madueke: Page 56 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Noni Madueke

Meatwad

right, left, center, all of it is a problem. after mikel wins 5 titles here people will look back on this one as a miracle job with what we had up front.

Qwiss

Burnwinter Nine tenths of the job is thankless supporting or defensive runs

Noni doesn't really do that donkey work well either though. I don't think we are going to sell and replace or anything like that but he cost quite a bit and so far has to be looked on as a bit of a failure in the market. I'd say 1 out of 5/6 last summer is a pretty good hit rate though.

Burnwinter Check the names next summer. If Semenyo doesn't score a bag he'll be as quietly forgotten as Mohammed Kudus. We'll see what happens with the rest.

Kudus is more Noni than Semenyo if we are being honest. And by the end of next season I expect its Noni who'll be the forgotten man as Max takes more and more minutes from him.

Burnwinter

Qwiss It could be true. My point here isn't so much about Noni coming good as about being an Arsenal winger. It's a meat grinder. If we take Saka versus Foden for England it's another case of how people tend to have a distorted view of how good the players we've got at the wings actually are.

Gunner89

Burnwinter

Things that never happened before very rarely happen at that age and I don't want to be the man betting on a miracle

Burnwinter

Gunner89 I don't think there's much risk of over-optimism in your case 😆🥰

Gunner89

banduan

We literally had to play a Saka that can't train with a persistent problem at the likes of freaking fulham at home because by the end of the season, arteta doesn't trust the backup

when you pay 50m you get enough that he'll be an acceptable replacement at the very least

He hardly scores and does no defensive work

There are plenty of games that any player in that position will get, that's the reason why Gordon went to barcelona knowing he's behind raphinha and lamal and that's why he was also interested in bayern knowing he'd be behind olise and diaz

Qwiss

Gunner89 We literally had to play a Saka that can't train with a persistent problem at the likes of freaking fulham at home because by the end of the season, arteta doesn't trust the backup

I'm not high on Noni but I think you end up doing that no matter who the back up is. Saka is by far our most important attacking player and even if we had a Trossard level back up to him I think we'd have pushed Saka through those games because we had to.

Gunner89

This guy won't ever be prolific, he's too casual both offensively and defensively

Burnwinter

Gunner89 This sort of inconsistency is often caused by anxiety rather than negligence. I've seen that smile when he fucks up on the faces of people who are anxiously used to fucking up. Doesn't change the fact Noni fucks up too much but it might change the way he stops fucking up too much.

JazzG

Burnwinter Agreed and things like confidence and composure are easier to improve than technical flaws in someone’s game. Mostly down to confidence and once he starts scoring chances like this he stops overthinking while on the pitch and it comes more naturally.

He actually does everything except the easiest part right in that clip, the easiest unfortunately for him also happens to be the most important part lol!

Burnwinter

JazzG It's the "Jesus smile" ... 😬

Claudius

What you’re saying is Saka will have to play even the group stage games. Cos you can’t rely on smiles without goals

awooga83

Yeah the end product missing and to be fair it's been missing for a long time is a big problem doesn't matter if everything else is done well. He cannot execute the final moments and you don't normally learn that, the decision making and quality needed for that are pretty much innate I don't think that's going to change.

JazzG

awooga83 is a big problem doesn't matter if everything else is done well

I don't agree with that, if you take his chance as a whole he's done everything right except the finish. Beating the offside trap, running at full pace and with skill taking it around the keeper, setting himself and hits the post. This is not an easy chance when you look at it overall and multiple actions required to score.

Of course missing the chance is the main thing but out of all the things he had to do it is the easiest to improve on. A lot of players aren't even able to create a chance out of that. The finish is purely down to composure and confidence, he has more time than he realises and he is losing balance and snatches at it.

He may never get better but considering he has just turned 24 I am not going to write him off already.

awooga83

JazzG finishing and delivering the end product is a massive skill plenty of players can't execute the final part. I'm sure we've all seen and even played against some people who have.great skill but lack the attributes to make. Clearly Madueke had some of the ingredients but as a forward the end product matters way more and be doesn't have it. On a consistent basis he hasn't been able to deliver it. That doesn't mean he can never but it means looking at the data you don't have evidence to say he will so when planning for the squad and season you should be accepting that he's going to be a player work low attacking output is that enough of we want to be winning and competing consistently at the top of the game.

Qwiss

JazzG I don't agree with that, if you take his chance as a whole he's done everything right except the finish. Beating the offside trap, running at full pace and with skill taking it around the keeper, setting himself and hits the post. This is not an easy chance when you look at it overall and multiple actions required to score.

Agree with this. I think despite the freak miss Tuchel will be pretty happy with that. Noni's finish generally isn't his issue anyway, its more his decision making and final ball from wide. I'd love to see him making more runs like that for us.

JazzG Saka and Martinelli being better now than when they were 18 can hardly be attributed solely to Arteta. Same with Ode since he was 20. Certainly none are comparable to Madueke who's now 24.

You could possibly say Trossard and Havertz have played their best football under Arteta but he had them hitting their full stride within 6 months or so of being here. Noni hasn't really improved at all over the season.

JazzG

Good on him to talk about it afterwards, from what I've heard about him he is a good kid and trains hard, I honestly think under a coach like Arteta he will improve and get better. I think people have just got it in for him like they do for Havertz.

awooga83

JazzG I don't think this is accurate either the idea that Arteta just improves players I don't think holds up especially attacking players I don't them we've seen many (if any) become better in that regard.

Rohit

JazzG I think people have just got it in for him like they do for Havertz.

Yeah, it's a little unfortunate that players like him and Gyokeres have such people who have got it in for them. Well, at least some are consistent in their principles of evaluation across players.

JazzG

awooga83 I don't have expectations of him taking Saka's place but as a rotation option and someone who offers a very different skillset to the other players I think he is fine. We overpaid for him but he is a high level player who is happy with that role. Coaches who have worked with him have spoken about how he trains well so I'll trust Arteta's judgement on him.

awooga83 So Martinelli, Saka and Odegaard haven’t got better under Arteta? Pep previously mentioned that Sterling and Sane both improved with Arteta's coaching.

awooga83

JazzG So Martinelli, Saka and Odegaard haven’t got better under Arteta? Pep previously mentioned that Sterling and Sane both improved with Arteta's coaching

No I don't think they have. Saka is pure talent his progression is nothing that you would attribute to Arteta. Martinelli and odegaard have both stagnated and if you want to say Arteta was directly responsible for what they did earlier in their time here why didn't it continue and he can't continue to get that from them

I thought you might bring up the sterling stuff that was clearly total propaganda bullshit. There was lots this claim but he went to Chelsea and then us and was exactly the same sterling he'd always been missing opportunities. I think far too much was made of that and it was more he played for a city side that made the difference. I don't think there is an attacking player now who I think is at a different level that's because of Arteta.

JazzG

Qwiss Saka and Martinelli being better now than when they were 18 can hardly be attributed solely to Arteta. Same with Ode since he was 20. Certainly none are comparable to Madueke who's now 24.

No we can't but under Arteta they did reach probably see their best form in their career. All three of them hitting double figures for goal scored which is a great achievement. For various reasons that form hasn't been maintained....

awooga83

Qwiss You could possibly say Trossard and Havertz have played their best football under Arteta but he had them hitting their full stride within 6 months or so of being here. Noni hasn't really improved at all over the season.

And Trossard was already a very good player so again I'm not sure Arteta more then playing in a better team.

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