Arteta - one more year and that’s it - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arteta - one more year and that’s it

Qwiss

Its not that simple. If we get 100 points next season but City get 101 and we lose the CL final 4-3 to someone brilliant would you still want to sack him? If we finish 7th, go out in the league phase of the CL but win the league cup would you want him to stay?

I need to see him sort things our next season. If we finish close to 70 points again its unacceptable but "silverware or go" is too simplistic.

Sicario2

Qwiss I don’t care about glorified failures anymore. Targets are targets. It’s win or bust. I don’t care about context anymore. If you don’t win the league then come second and win fa cup.

Fa cup is basically back up. It has to be the league (or CL).

League cup is immaterial.

It has to be binary now, no more accepting ‘next season, next season’

Next season is THE season.

JazzG

Need to see if the club deliver in the summer window first.

Qwiss Agree with this, if we are neck and neck in the two main competitions things need to be taken in perspective.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

I want to see him use ONLY youth/back ups in the League Cup.

Burnwinter

Sicario2 Targets are targets. It’s win or bust. I don’t care about context anymore.

Sure you do. You're offering him the whole season to potentially fail again. My preference is that if we're not travelling like champions in December the club should sack him then.

The club should make the decision early, based on the strong revival necessary to a win, and having scooped up a strong alternative coach in advance.

HomeSteak

JazzG let's talk for real about what we need. I think we constructed the squad so bad, that we simply cannot fix it in one summer.
We need a striker. That is close to 100 mil, even one that is not really proven like Gyokeres is 70 fucking mil. If you want a real one...and I don't know who that is other then Isak, the price is over 100, easy. And I don't think Newcastle would sell even for that.
We need 2 in midfield. 51 mil is the price in the press for Zubimendi. How are we buying 2? We are gonna keep Partey, who wants that? Nobody, but we will do it.
Now, as per Arteta, he must buy a defender, and if 1-2 leave, maybe he will want more.
Then as every summer since he came here, we need a back-up keeper. Knowing Arteta and the older links with that Spanish keeper....he might go big there.
Left winger? Forget about it. Thats another 70.
Saka back up? Maybe he gives more time to Nwaneri...but then he is also the Odegaard back up? Even if Arteta refuses to sub off Odegaard no matter how bad he is.

There is no fucking way we get what we need.

Now in terms of Arteta, he fucked him self up(the moment it all went wrong was the 65 for Havertz. That money should have went for a proper CM or a proper striker, he manged to spend the money and get none, now he needs both, and its to expensive) and yes, he needs to win something or he needs to leave. Now if we get into a strange season where we get 97 points and another team gets 100...I mean, thats different.
But bar any strange season, it's either the CL or PL or he is gone for me.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

It's not just Arteta (although I'm not enamoured with his coaching philosophy), it's those above him too. This window should reveal all.

Qwiss

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert January was the first time there was a bit of a schism between him and those above him. Probably down to Edu not being there. Hopefully Berta is ready to make his mark this summer. We definitely need a different approach in the market to the last 2-3 windows.

HomeSteak I don't really see the point in putting the league cup along side the Champions League. Its just stupid content that doesn't tell us anything real.

Sicario2 His record in the business end of the season is not great either. Please stop excusing him.

What was our league run in last season? Was pretty good from what I remember. Our issues last season were much earlier. This is another false narrative that gets bandied around on social media.

JazzG

HomeSteak I think if we sign a top CM and Wide player we move up a level.

CM - £50m
CM - £20m
WF - £55m
GK - £20m
CF - £70m

Then take into account we'll probably sell Kiwior, Zinchenko, Trossard. I think those three should raise us around £40m-£50m? If we say £40m that would make our net spend around £170m. Obviously getting so many deals done will be challenging but it is doable and it would improve us massively.

Bernard Woolley

I broadly agree with OP. We can always come up with super theoretical corner cases, but that doesn't invalidate the premise of any argument. I'd go one step forward and say that if we are not in title contention by Jan, the decision to move on should be made and the timing should only be subject to availability of a high quality replacement.

DiabyKungFu

If we finished 3rd on 81 points, got knocked out of the CL quarterfinals in extra time by Bayern Munich and won the FA Cup, then what would the vibes be like? I reckon largely the same.

Sicario2

DiabyKungFu would make a considerable difference. At least it would shut out the noise.

Mirth

Despite my differences with how Sicario views things, when it comes to the bottom line, he’s right here. One more season or we need to try something else.

Yeah, sure, some consideration can be made for how it plays out, the available alternatives next summer and the general ‘vibe’ but getting a trophy should be the first thing we use to evaluate performance

Pepe LeFrits

JazzG Then take into account we'll probably sell Kiwior, Zinchenko, Trossard. I think those three should raise us around £40m-£50m? If we say £40m that would make our net spend around £170m. Obviously getting so many deals done will be challenging but it is doable and it would improve us massively

That'd leave us hugely exposed. Ethan would continue to be covering two positions; an injury to Ode and he'd have to play every game, and if you have a further injury to one of the wingers, then the remaining two would have to play every game. Unless the plan is to play Nelson or Vieira.

At the back we'd be even thinner: after the first choice back 4, we'd have Calafiori and White to cover 4(!) defensive positions between the pair of them.

JazzG

Pepe LeFrits I'm just giving an example of what can be done, Not saying this is the window we should have. If we sign a wide player he can cover both wings, Ethan would only cover Odegaard. In defence we would need another defender.

Forgot about Vieira and Nelson, sell them and buy more players!

MistaT

Part of the reason I'm open to voting "yes" (one more year) is that I think Arteta's great work is largely behind him. He properly righted the ship in a way that many "post icon managers" couldn't. Fair credit to him for succeeding where the likes of Emery, Ole, Moyes, etc. couldn't.

That said, that floor has been raised (due to Arteta) and the standards reset. I don't see this squad dropping when he leaves, but perhaps actually rising up to a new voice/approach.

The system is solid enough to get us to the dance, but we're clearly missing something. It's my belief that our top end talent is actually being held back by Arteta.

Saka should be freed up to rival Salah for G/A contributions.
Martinelli should be narrower/higher and encouraged to become a 2nd CF, rather than an ineffective wide man.
Odegaard needs runners ahead to feed, not a horseshoe of static/delayed attacking patterns to maintain.
Rice needs a capable CM partner so he can rampage, not be shoehorned into an attacking role not suited for him.

I'd happily sign a more offensive minded manager who can maintain standards. In my mind, that is someone more like Zidane (not necessarily him) rather than a Conte.

samthegooner

I'd love to live in the dream world everyone appears to be in with thinking there are better managers that will come in and maintain Arteta's standards tactically and defensively while miraculously bringing in an attacking mindset. I don't think there is another manager out there who would've managed this Arsenal hospital squad to a semi-finals finish personally. Going to need to take a break from the online discourse if this Arteta-out agenda grows because I could not be further from it personally.

Sicario2

samthegooner so you are ok with going 5 years without a trophy? Are you ok if we have the same identical season next year to keep him in the job?

Basically it comes down to accountability and maintaining standards.

Claudius

samthegooner I feel much the same. Everyone is justified to have their opinion. We aren't part of the Borg. but i find it hard to be super critical given our circumstances and comparisons to our main competitors.

HomeSteak

Sicario2

HomeSteak this is shocking

QuincyAbeyie

Sicario2 being OK with it actually doesn't have anything to do with it. The only relevant question is whether you think the chances of success increase or decrease by changing the manager.

It's possible to not be OK with another trophyless season and still think that if we fire Arteta, things won't be better.

samthegooner

Sicario2 Of course I want to win titles. But I've lived through the Wenger banter years and the god awful Emery years where the squad was absolutely impotent compared to our rivals. Now we haven't lost to any of them in the last couple of league seasons and are constantly in the running for top honors. The grass is not always greener and I have yet to see another manager that consistently impresses me as much as Arteta does. We need to do more in terms of recruitment - everyone knows it and Arteta has been outright begging for it. I have strong doubts that anyone else could have put together the second half of the season that he did without falling completely apart due to our injuries. Hell - we saw what Pep did with similar injuries this year and he's regarded as the best.

The players also LOVE Arteta - Saka said it as recently as last week. Get rid of him and you definitely run the risk of pushing away some of our best players. But most of all, I believe in Arteta. This is his first manager job and he's knocked it out of the park while also learning on the fly. Can he get better? Of course. But I don't think there are more than 2-3 clubs in the world who wouldn't take him if he became available tomorrow.

Don Pacifico

Sicario2 it's frankly meaningless. Losing in the EFL semis is not the same as losing in the CL semis.

One of the big problems with modern day football punditry is the lazy use of data to find trends to prove something; when you scratch beneath the service, they often mean very little.

Sicario2

QuincyAbeyie if I offered you Inzaghi this summer, would you take him or say ‘no, let’s give Mikel another season?’

Sicario2

Don Pacifico aside from semi -finals, his record in Europe is not great. His record in the business end of the season is not great either. Please stop excusing him.

What about semi final v Newcastle when he played our best team (x 2)? Did he not want to win that?